Author Topic: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs  (Read 114423 times)

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Offline rgt9w

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2008, 08:41:06 PM »
Dear Ms. Rappaport,

I wanted to ask you about the "painful coronary occlusion" of Nicholas II mentioned on page 47. I wanted to make sure I understood the terminology. Does this mean Nicholas had a mild heart attack or merely angina?

Thank you for any clarification you can provide.

Constantinople

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2008, 10:30:46 PM »
 I have written academic papers, even done them for other people, and gotten them very good grades.

Wow.  My  jaw dropped when i read this.  Did you get paid Annie or did you do it because you have a love of writing academic papers.  If you had done this at my university, you would have been expelled if caught.  It is worse than  your contempt for facts and footnotes.

Offline Annie

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2008, 11:31:41 PM »
Oh for God's sake!! Look, the Annie bashing needs to stop, because it's not about me, you are ruining this woman's book thread! THIS IS ABOUT HELEN'S BOOK! Why don't all you Annie bashers go start a "Why I hate Annie" thread in the discussion forum and stop dragging all these threads OT! Enough already!

EKATERINBURG: THE LAST DAYS OF THE ROMANOVS BY HELEN RAPPAPORT

great new Romanov book on the market now!

discuss!

« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 11:43:18 PM by Annie »

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2008, 11:48:15 PM »
Nobody hates you Annie
You should not be taking anything personally.  Disagreement with some of the things you do is not the same as loathing someone.  I will not be starting a  I hate Annie thread. I just object to you citing emotionally belief as fact.
If I see Helen Rapaport's book in the library, I will read it

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2008, 06:18:16 AM »
Oh for God's sake!! Look, the Annie bashing needs to stop, because it's not about me, you are ruining this woman's book thread! THIS IS ABOUT HELEN'S BOOK!

Oh, is it?

You might want to re-read posts 46 & 47 on this thread, where you tried to turn the discussion toward survivors and Ms. Rappaport had to make it clear she did not intend to become a victim of your unrelenting assaults over your survivor obsession.

Then, there was this choice little post from you on this thread:

Then again, some people put in a great deal of footnotes that don't always match up to real or accurate sources. Really, who needs footnotes? They just make the book thicker . . . .

Anyone who knows your modus operandus  can spot it developing on this thread.  You pretend to be interested in the actual topic, then you begin to feel around for an opening to move the discussion toward the only thing that seems to matter in your life -- your psychotic and never-ending mission to reveal King and Wilson for the frauds they are.

As you admitted, you have never read Fate of the Romanovs, although your life seems to revolve around it.  I seriously doubt whether you will ever actually read Ms. Rappaport's book either, even if it is thinner than that footnote-laden Other Book.  And, if you do read Ms. Rappaport's book, you're going to be somewhat frustrated with her views on the work of King of Wilson, which she explicitly compliments both in her book and earlier on this thread.

As for those "good grades" you obtain for plagiarizers . . . I'll believe it when I see it.  A woman who opines on books she hasn't read, who propogates conspiracy theories from the internet, who thinks footnotes just make books too thick -- and who is apparently not even aware of the seriousness with which actual collegians view plagiarism -- does not strike me as someone who could pull a good grade on a bathroom slip in junior high.

Offline StevenL

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2008, 06:48:53 AM »
A woman who opines on books she hasn't read, who propogates conspiracy theories from the internet, who thinks footnotes just make books too thick -- and who is apparently not even aware of the seriousness with which actual collegians view plagiarism -- does not strike me as someone who could pull a good grade on a bathroom slip in junior high.


What a disgusting viper-pit of super-egos.

No doubt Ms. Rappaport is horrified to have her name atop this thread.



Offline Sarushka

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2008, 08:20:35 AM »
No doubt Ms. Rappaport is horrified to have her name atop this thread.

That remains to be seen. All of this has erupted since her last login. Some of us can go for hours, if not (*gasp*) DAYS without visiting the AP.

There's every reason to hope she'll return to address the questions posted -- despite the fact that our track record with authors has been rather...colorful in the past. ;-)
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
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Offline halen

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2008, 08:25:45 AM »
Sarushka, maybe we should just leave this particular thread and start a new one...Questions for Helen Rappaport: EKATERINBURG: THE LAST DAYS OF THE ROMANOVS.  That way we can start anew.

Louise
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

When he shall die
Take him and cut him out into stars
And he shall make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night,

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2008, 08:37:39 AM »
What a disgusting viper-pit of super-egos.

Call it what you will, but you weren't around for the 3-plus years in which every time anyone tried to have a reasonable discussion or debate on this forum about the last days of the imperial family, the discussion was overtaken by Annie and her vitriolic attacks on two well-established authors, both of whom finally departed this forum over the unrelenting attacks . . . to the loss of the many posters who, while they might have disagreed with some aspects of the book, were still interested in hearing the authors' perspectives on and defenses of the positions they advanced in their book.

I am speculating, but I believe that is why Ms. Rappaport, in her Post 47 on this thread, declined to answer a particular question that was put to her.  It was a trap laid by Annie, and she knew it.

I think Halen's idea is a good one . . . with the proviso that any  attempts, whether direct or indirect, to turn this discussion into an attack on Fate of the Romanovs  be dealt with by immediate deletion of the posts.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2008, 08:42:00 AM »
Sarushka, maybe we should just leave this particular thread and start a new one...Questions for Helen Rappaport: EKATERINBURG: THE LAST DAYS OF THE ROMANOVS.  That way we can start anew.

I don't know if that's necessary. If we want to set aside the tangent and move on, we should do so, but IMO that shouldn't require a fresh thread. We're (mostly) grown-ups here. If people regret their off-topic posts, they can request a mod delete them.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline halen

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #100 on: June 10, 2008, 08:50:39 AM »
Fair deal!  Forward we go.

Louise
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

When he shall die
Take him and cut him out into stars
And he shall make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night,

Offline Annie

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2008, 09:04:58 AM »
It was a trap laid by Annie, and she knew it.


Hold on a minute here! The only reason I'm answering this is because it is related to the book. I laid no 'trap' for Ms. Rappaport, in fact, I hve done everything I can to defend this book and support the author in the thread from the terrorism it has experienced by those who will not end their personal smear campaign against me. My post mentioning 'survivors' was in response to Sian Turner's post and her position on survivors and who was missing from the grave, it was not a criticism of the book. I have already apologized at least twice for that post, and will do so again.

As far as what happened 3 years ago, the threads are probably still here, as are some of the other posters who were involved. The story told by this poster about my involvement is very inaccuarate. I am frustrated that the endless attacks on me personally have again disrupted the forum, and invite anyone who has issues with me to start a new thread and leave the others alone. This is supposed to be an intelligent, academic forum, not the Jerry Springer show.

Sarushska and Halen, I have to say I disagree with both of you about starting a new thread. This one, like others, has been taken over and dominated by a very aggressive personality carrying his unrelenting grudge against me to extremes, dragging many threads off topic. Apparently, he's a great friend of the mods, and they will allow him to do so, so this thread will never be what it was meant to be. Please, someone start a new thread on this book, one with the class and dignity Ms. Rappaport's work deserves.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 09:07:40 AM by Annie »

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #102 on: June 10, 2008, 09:21:44 AM »
Quote
Sarushska and Halen, I have to say I disagree with both of you about starting a new thread. This one, like others, has been taken over andd dominated by a personality carrying his grudge against me to extremes and dragging threads off topic. Apparently, he's a great friend of the mods, and they will allow him to do so, so this thread will never be what it was meant to be.

I would like Helen Rappaport to maintain her presence on the AP Forum. I haven't read the book (yet --- I will be buying it, of course, and look forward to what I am sure will be a pleasurable read.)  If people want her to stick around, might I suggest that you compliment her book, or disparage it, without reference to Fate of the Romanovs? This is her moment, and her use of footnotes/endnotes/bibliographies has nothing to do with anyone else's. Frankly, until I do read the book, I am uncomfortable speaking about it.

As far as the claptrap in the quote above is concerned:  Annie, you might want to consider that the reasons the mods let things stand has more to do with content than the imaginary bias you create as an explanation. Perhaps they think that your assertions should not go unchallenged. Just a thought.

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Offline helenrappaport

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #103 on: June 10, 2008, 10:40:00 AM »
I have just managed to log in in an Internet cafe in London where I am away researching the next book - yes, no time for a rest, a holiday or to take stock if you earn your living as a full time writer as I do.

So imagine my utter dismay to see the tirade of criticism launched at my book with regard to the absence of footnotes.  What paritcularly upsets me is that some critics seem to have failed to read the Note on Sources at the end which makes absolutely clear why I made those decisions. 

I had in fact just written a very long response but the machine I am on suddenly closed down on me and I lost the lot.  I don't have the heart to type it all again.  But suffice it to say that I think people who rush to throw stones should not do so before considering the kind of considerations - intellectual, creative, and yes- that dirty word - commercial - that come into play if you earn your living and pay your mortage as I do as a full time writer.

I will say just this.  I have been a writer, Russianist and translator for the last thirty years or so; I went to Ekakterinburg as research for this book - how many western authors on the Romanovs have bothered to do that.? I dont think even K & W went there. How many of the armchair critics on this list have been there; or speak Russian or have read any of the Russian sources clearly cited in my extensive bibiliography.?  I am not a dilettante or an amateur enthusiast. This is how I earn my liiving. I wrote this book on the back of a huge amount of detailed and painstaking research - much of it in Russian, a lot of it extremely hard to access.  I wrote this book with I hope love and an understanding of Russia, the Russians and that turbulent time intheir history.  Just because it does not have footnotes does not make it worthless.  I made an agonising decision over this issue after much discussion with my agent and publisher.  But ultimately the decision was a creative one - it was about TELLING THE STORY.

My primary objective was to write a gripping linear narrative about those final days for THE LAY READER - not someone who wants half a book of footnotes - but someone who knows little or nothing about the story and wants me - a professional historian and writer - to tell the story to them in a way that is accessible and interesting.  I hate elitisim in histroy writing - which is why I gave up academic writing. It's all very fine producing historiy books with acres of footnotes that sell only a couple of hundred copies - but they will not reach the ordinary readere on the street, whom I gfor one respect and value.  they buy my books and put food on my table and pay my mortgage.  I don;t have an academic post or an academic salary - it is a simple case now, certainly in publishing in the UK, that if youwant to survive as a writer you adapt or DIE.  I want to carry on writing history; it is my great love. I want to carry on communicating to people a lifetime's love of Russia its people and all things Russian.  I don't want to be read by an academic elite who can sit at leisure and turn up their noses and nit pick over my referencing.  And you know what - the best compliment I've had so far has been from my old mum aged 91.  She has not been able to read much since a bad fall last year but told me she was really enjoying Ekateirnburg.  And why? Because as she explained to me: 'its so much easier to read it darling without all those little numbers all over the page.'

I do not intend to get into a long and anguished wrist slashing over the lack of footnotes. I stand by my decision and would like one day to write some kind of journal article about the research background. I have made it clear in the book why I made that decision - and will repeat for one last time.  The vast majority of the materiial I drew on was archival and or in Russian.  Of the Russian material a fair amount was sources I could only track down in Ekaterinburg.  I have already said I will be happy to clarify more specific sources for those with a genuine interest, who read Russian and who want to go to the original - but suffice it to say that many of these aren't even in the British Library - and I doubt you will find them in any average public library in the US.

I think it is utterly futile to carry on over endless posts discussin this issue.  And I for one wont be responding if it does.  Let's talk about what really matters and how I tried to tell it.  And please - before laying into me about the lack of footnotes, how about someone commending what IS new - e.g. the detail on the city itself, the role of Thomas Preston which has bee ngreatly underreesearched and undervalued, the wonderful reporting on Russia of Herman Bernstein, the up to date take on Ganina Yama and the Church on the Blood.

I could say an awful lot more but I wont.  Let common sense prevail.,  all best, Helen

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Re: Helen Rappaport- Ekaterinburg: The Last Days of the Romanovs
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2008, 11:09:37 AM »
Helen Rappaprt
                    Don't get defensive.  If you are open about who the book is intedned for  that is fine.  Food is a good thing to put on the table.  And if you know that your market is do not like footnotes, that is fine too.  Most of the statements here are about the usefulness of footnotes and how they are necessary to establish the credibility of  your points.  If the majority of your readers do not require those, then that is fine but for some of us, the historical trail stops and there is a judgement call that you have to make on whether you trust the author or not if there are no footnotes.  I think riveting reads are great but when I am reading a non fiction book, I personally want the satisfaction of being about to find additional sources and to find out where a particular fact was sourced from.
   I think it is great that  you went to Ekaterinburg and that you are fluent in Russian and that you have sourced new sources.  NOONE has said that your book is bad or that they are not interested.  The only comment that was made that was neutral or slightly negative was that for the serious historians among us, footnotes would have made it even better.
Good luck on your book
I hope it is very successful. I am sure it will be.