IF's nicknames -- they weren't meant for us!

I'm coming out of hiding for just a minute because I heard this thread of mine was heating up.

When I talk about respect regarding this particular issue, I'm thinking of these two definitions from the dictionary link Laura provided:

10. to show regard or consideration for: to respect someone's rights.
11.   to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with: to respect a person's privacy.

Just very basic do-unto-others decency.

I'll bet you my 1913 silver ruble that someone's probably said some version of this: "They're dead -- what difference does it make what we call them? They don't care anymore." I can't really argue with that. However, IMO disregard for someone's wishes -- living or dead -- is a sort of disrespect  all by itself.  Can we ever really know what the IF's wishes about nicknames would be? Of course not. But there are cultural and documentary clues to indicate that many of the nicknames commonly used on the AP are probably neither accurate nor appropriate given our lack of relationship with the IF. And in the absence of actual wishes or opinions from the IF on the topic, it just seems to me that we ought to do them the courtesy of sticking to the conventions of their own time. No one on the AP can reasonably argue that the dead don't matter, after all -- if they didn't, the AP wouldn't even exist to discuss them.

Will I care if someone I never met chooses to refer to me as "Sally" or "Sadie" after I die? Probably not, in all honesty. I might think they were a little goofy, though. An example from the other side of the issue: my dad calls me "Wort" (long story). I don't mind that nickname, coming from him. But do I want anybody and everybody else to start calling me that? Um...no. Not really. That's more or less what spurred me to bring up this issue.

As for dealing with each other, someone on the AP once said that everyone is entitled to respect the first time you meet. After that, respect is earned. I agree.

So like I said earlier, I'm not going to wag my finger and tell you what you should or shouldn't do. All I'm going to do is give you my point of view. Yeah, I hope it makes some folks stop and think and maybe even change their minds, but if it doesn't, well, I tried.

I am not talking about general human to human respect of course. Everyone does deserve just general regard for being alive, and then there is respect for the dead but not as much if they are long dead, like 80 years long dead and you never knew them as people. Still a little regard is deserved, but not nearly as much.

Please do not tell me that I must bow down to NAOTMAA because they were royals 100 years ago. Using nicknames because it is 'disrespectful' supposedly because 'Olishka' was something only the family used, and 'Her royal highness Olga Nicholaievna for the common people like us. Puh-lease.

I couldn't agree more with that. That they were royalty was merely as accident of birth. It isn't an accomplishment in and of itself. Some members of the IF were very interesting, decent individuals, and certainly worthy of respect. Others, in my personal opinion, weren't.

I don't generally use nicknames. I tend to refer to Alexandra as Alix because that was her original name. That said, I don't see how using nicknames is disrespectful. Unless, of course, the nickname itself is offensive in some way (perverse, rude, etc.). I don't see any reason to get in a huff over someone referring to Maria as Mashenka or the Emperor as Nicky.

On another note, someone suggested that the IF "didn't use" nicknames. They most certainly did! The ones that come to mind right away for various members of the IF are Mashka, Alyosha, Malenkaya, Schwibsik, Nicky, KR, Mavra, Michen, Nikolasha, Stana, Zia, Minnie, Sascha, Ducky, and Sandro.

On another note, someone suggested that the IF "didn't use" nicknames. They most certainly did! The ones that come to mind right away for various members of the IF are Mashka, Alyosha, Malenkaya, Schwibsik, Nicky, KR, Mavra, Michen, Nikolasha, Stana, Zia, Minnie, Sascha, Ducky, and Sandro.

Those are all true of the extended IF, but my point was that I've rarely if ever seen evidence that NAOTMAA used traditional Russian diminuative nicknames (with the exception of Maria Nikolaevna as "Mashka"). Nicholas II didn't go by Kolya, for example.

If anyone has seen a letter or diary entry that refers to Aleksei Nikolaevich as "Alyosha," I'd love to see it. It's always seemed strange to me that diminuative nicknames virtually never appear in NAOTMAAs' correspondence. For a family that thought of themselves as quintessentially Russian, it just doesn't make sense.

The only book I have on hand right now is "A Life Long Passion." I was able to find two letters where Anastasia signed her name "Nastasia" (Anastasia to Nicholas, 23 Sept 1914, page 402 & 28 Oct 1914 - page 406). 7 Mar 1915 (page 421) she wrote to her father and on 4 May 1915 (page 424) to her mother signing her name "Nastanka." She again wrote to her father 26 Aug 1915 (page 437) this time signing as "Caspian Nastaska." So at the very least Anastasia certainly enjoyed using nicknames.

I would agree that it is a bit odd that traditional Russian nicknames were not frequently used (at least in the family correspondence) by Nicholas & Alexandra's children. However, I must admit that while I have a nickname myself I never sign letters, emails, or anything else, using my nickname.

Off topic - Sarushka I really love your banner.

The only book I have on hand right now is "A Life Long Passion." I was able to find two letters where Anastasia signed her name "Nastasia" (Anastasia to Nicholas, 23 Sept 1914, page 402 & 28 Oct 1914 - page 406). 7 Mar 1915 (page 421) she wrote to her father and on 4 May 1915 (page 424) to her mother signing her name "Nastanka." She again wrote to her father 26 Aug 1915 (page 437) this time signing as "Caspian Nastaska." So at the very least Anastasia certainly enjoyed using nicknames.

Seems like the Little Pair used them more than anyone else.

I would agree that it is a bit odd that traditional Russian nicknames were not frequently used (at least in the family correspondence) by Nicholas & Alexandra's children. However, I must admit that while I have a nickname myself I never sign letters, emails, or anything else, using my nickname.

That's a very good point, which makes it hard to know for sure. Although Nicholas & Alexandra's wartime letters are full of nicknames like Baby, Sunny, Alicky, Nicky, Little One, boysy, Agoo Wee One, My Treasure, the girlies, wify, huzzy, etc. So it seems to me that if N&A were in the habit of calling their children by Russian nicknames they wouldn't have been shy about including those in their letters with the other common terms of endearment. Just a guess, though...

Off topic - Sarushka I really love your banner.

Thanks! Jelisaveta (aka: Isa) made it for me. I don't think she posts here much anymore, though.

That's a very good point, which makes it hard to know for sure. Although Nicholas & Alexandra's wartime letters are full of nicknames like Baby, Sunny, Alicky, Nicky, Little One, boysy, Agoo Wee One, My Treasure, the girlies, wify, huzzy, etc. So it seems to me that if N&A were in the habit of calling their children by Russian nicknames they wouldn't have been shy about including those in their letters with the other common terms of endearment. Just a guess, though...

That's certainly true. I only noticed Alexandra depart from this pattern twice in letters to the girls (in the letters published in A Lifelong Passion, at any rate) - both in letters to Maria.

30 Dec 1907 She begins her letter to Maria "My darling little cherie" and 6 Dec 1919 "My little childy."

That's a very good point, which makes it hard to know for sure. Although Nicholas & Alexandra's wartime letters are full of nicknames like Baby, Sunny, Alicky, Nicky, Little One, boysy, Agoo Wee One, My Treasure, the girlies, wify, huzzy, etc. So it seems to me that if N&A were in the habit of calling their children by Russian nicknames they wouldn't have been shy about including those in their letters with the other common terms of endearment. Just a guess, though...

That's certainly true. I only noticed Alexandra depart from this pattern twice in letters to the girls (in the letters published in A Lifelong Passion, at any rate) - both in letters to Maria.

30 Dec 1907 She begins her letter to Maria "My darling little cherie" and 6 Dec 1919 "My little childy."

Could you please post those letters here? Or PM them to me? Please please! (looking with dog eyes)

That might prove difficult, all the letters in Lifelong Passion are simply text and not the actual letter itself, you'd have to scan the page 

Alexandra Feodorovna to Maria Nikolaevna
30 December 1907

My darling little cherie,
 I hope you will be able to read this letter all alone, tho' it is in English. Many thanks for your nice letter.
 I am delighted that you are all so much better. God grant I shall soon see you all again. I am going to have quite a party in my bedroom for luncheon - Papa, Olga, and Anastasia. Is it not grand?
 My headache has quite passed, but the head still feels rather tired. Now I must read the Bible and prayers as I do not go to Church. I hope ou and Tatiana do so too.
 Very fondest kisses my little girly dear, from your loving old Mama.
 God bless you.

Alexandra Feodorovna to Maria Nikolaevna
6 December 1910

My little childy,
 Ever such loving thanks for your letter. I had long ago noticed that you were sad, but did not ask because one does not like it when others ask. Certainly, coming home to lessons (which are inevitable) after your long holidays and gay life with relations and merry young people is not easy.
 Then loving your old Mama who is always ill does not make life bright for you poor children. It is my great sorrow not to be able to be more with you all, and to read and shout and play together - but we must bear all. He has sent His cross which must be borne. I know it's dull having an invalid mother, but it teaches you all to be loving and gentle. Only try to be more obedient, then you make it easier for me, and you show the little ones a good example.
 I know well your feelings for poor little one.
 Try not to let your thoughts dwell too much on him, that's what our Friend said. You see, others might see your looks when you are with him and speak unkindly. Now that you are a big girl, you must always be more careful and not show those feelings. One must not let others see what one feels inside, when one knows it's considered not proper.
 I know he likes you as a little sister and would like to help you not to care too much, because he knows you, a little Grand Duchess, must not care for him so. Deary, I can't write all, it takes too long and I am not alone.
 Be brave and cheer up and don't let your thoughts dwell so much upon him. It's not good and makes you yet more sad. Had I been well I should have tried to amuse and cheer you up, so all would have been easier - but it's not so and nothing can be done. God will help you. Cheer up, little one - try to be good and don't think yourself horrid.
 God bless you. A big kiss from you very own old,
 Mama +

Oh, I feel terrible that you had to type all of that out. I Pm'ed her the letters. I wasn't sure if I could post the text here. Thank you for posting it Sarushka. The last letter reveals another side of Alexandra in one sense. She is usually thought of as austere and yet she remarks that she would love to play and "shout" with her children.

Yeah I noticed that. You can tell that Alexandra took joy in entering her children's games, remember the pillow fight story? She loved playing with toddlers and apparently had a natural way with babies. I suppose it comes from having your own, and looking after them yourself.

Oh, I feel terrible that you had to type all of that out. I Pm'ed her the letters. I wasn't sure if I could post the text here. Thank you for posting it Sarushka.

No problem -- it only took a few minutes.

I'm about 98% certain that the text of the imperial family's diaries and letters are not subject to copyright laws -- the authors are no longer living and they have no living heirs. ("Copyright is the right of the author of the work or the author's heirs or assignees, not of the one who only owns or possesses the physical work itself.") Teaching and research also fall under the fair use privilege of copyright law.

Am, I'm one of those who use nicknames that seem to be so improper for them. Well, my reason for giving them suck nicknames are just that I think those sound sweet (though we don't have same tastes). I understand the sides of all the people who use their full given names. Sorry if I can't stop typing nicknames for them.
(P.S. I have to read the posts here, I'm just halfway)

I like thiose names,but out of respect. Their family should call them that.