Author Topic: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books  (Read 82914 times)

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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2008, 10:00:17 AM »

I didn't hear Penny's talk at the ERHJ Conference and don't know what she said, because I have at this point just about zero interest in the death of Nicholas II; in his children; and in people claiming to be them. But I heard from a friend that the gist of her talk was examining the possibility that AA was a Russian aristocract (NB This does NOT mean that Penny thinks she actually was; just that she examained the question).



Dearest Janet,

At the ERHJ Conference last October, which at least 20 of those in attendance also happen to be APA members – many of them at my urging – Penny Wilson gave an excellent lecture on Nicholas Konstantinovich Jr and his American paramour. It was an amazing lecture and everyone in the crowd was mightily impressed, not only by the amount of research shared, but also by the photographic samples she used to illustrate her talk.

Regards,

Arturo Beéche
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Offline Annie

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2008, 10:06:33 AM »
I don't understand how exploring this could possibly be 'OT' when Helen is the one who started the thread and this is exactly the topic she wanted addressed. If the thread is to be censored due to the personal feelings some of our members have for Penny, please let us know that is the case.

Offline Annie

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2008, 10:09:09 AM »

I didn't hear Penny's talk at the ERHJ Conference and don't know what she said, because I have at this point just about zero interest in the death of Nicholas II; in his children; and in people claiming to be them. But I heard from a friend that the gist of her talk was examining the possibility that AA was a Russian aristocract (NB This does NOT mean that Penny thinks she actually was; just that she examained the question).



Dearest Janet,

At the ERHJ Conference last October, which at least 20 of those in attendance also happen to be APA members – many of them at my urging – Penny Wilson gave an excellent lecture on Nicholas Konstantinovich Jr and his American paramour. It was an amazing lecture and everyone in the crowd was mightily impressed, not only by the amount of research shared, but also by the photographic samples she used to illustrate her talk.

Regards,

Arturo Beéche

Arturo, that was #2 on your list, but was # 10 on your list not also discussed? Could you please share the subject matter with us? Thank you!

10. The Romanov Bones: Who was Anna Anderson, by Penny Wilson.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,10369.0.html

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2008, 10:15:41 AM »
The agenda was changed and only the Nicholas Konstantionovich talk was given as we had too much to present on other far more interesting topics than an old beaten horse.

Regards

Arturo Beéche
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Arturo Beéche, Publisher
http://erhj.blogspot.com
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Kensington House Books
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510/236-1730
books@eurohistory.com
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Offline Puppylove

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2008, 10:17:13 AM »

When I was freaking out over what might be being said on this forum and others and not wanting to look at them, Greg also said to me, "These isn't anything on any of these boards which should induce anything other than bemusement," - and - boy - looking now I see how right he was.


Janet, as I have stated many times before I apreciate your insight, because you have opened my eyes to the way editing and publishing should work in a perfect world, and how they end up working in reality.

Having said this, I'm disappointed to learn that Mr. King (whom I respect and don't believe I've ever disparaged), would find only "bemusement" on a forum such as this. Is anyone, published or not, credentialed or not, really so completely confident in their own knowledge that they've nothing left to learn?

Jenn

He did not at all mean to disparage anyone's knowledge - he just meant that I should not be angry or fearful at attacks on him - that's the specific context of what he said about "bemusement" being the only approporiate response.

In a rush, but wanted to answer that at once....

Thank you for the quick clarification. Just goes to show you, while context is everything, the spirit of that pesky 5th Amendment has drifted from the courthouse to this thread. And rightfully so, in my opinion!
"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

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Offline Annie

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2008, 10:25:22 AM »
The agenda was changed and only the Nicholas Konstantionovich talk was given as we had too much to present on other far more interesting topics than an old beaten horse.

Regards

Arturo Beéche

I agree the Konstantinovichi are more interesting. If you feel like AA is a dead horse why did you allow it to be addressed? Are you saying that #10 on your list was not given? Janet has already stated that her friend heard the speech, and I saw it mentioned on the KW forum too. Did she or did she not make the speech on the bones?

Offline Ilana

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2008, 10:28:04 AM »
I was there and the lecture was on Nicholas Konstantionovich.  It was a great talk... actually both of Penny's talks were fascinating.  No bones anywhere as I recall.
So long and thanks for all the fish

Offline Annie

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2008, 10:29:38 AM »
Sarah,

I think it is self evident that the moment an author "dramatizes" (or dramatises for UK readers) it is no longer non-fiction and becomes Historical fiction.  Honestly, imagine it being exactly the same as all those History Channel shows that "miraculously" have "video footage" of Mark Antony and Cleopatra or Washington at Valley Forge or whatever...dramatization is that.

Laura Ingalls Wilder's books, while based on her own personal life, is listed as fiction due to dramatization.  Same with Earl Hamner and The Waltons. I have even heard that "Roots" has been called historical fiction since Alex Haley filled in the blanks of the real stories he knew with his own added dramatization.

Offline Puppylove

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2008, 10:30:01 AM »
I don't understand how exploring this could possibly be 'OT' when Helen is the one who started the thread and this is exactly the topic she wanted addressed. If the thread is to be censored due to the personal feelings some of our members have for Penny, please let us know that is the case.

Annie, bless your heart for trying. If ANY author can only be discussed in association with words like "amazing" and "mightily impressed" and other synonyms, then it's not a discussion, it's propaganda. Unless you ascribe to the propaganda, it's better to ignore it.
"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

"...and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Offline Annie

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2008, 10:34:12 AM »
I don't understand how exploring this could possibly be 'OT' when Helen is the one who started the thread and this is exactly the topic she wanted addressed. If the thread is to be censored due to the personal feelings some of our members have for Penny, please let us know that is the case.

Annie, bless your heart for trying. If ANY author can only be discussed in association with words like "amazing" and "mightily impressed" and other synonyms, then it's not a discussion, it's propaganda. Unless you ascribe to the propaganda, it's better to ignore it.

Thank you.


On the subject of this seminar,

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,10369.0.html

I am still confused. Can anyone give me a direct answer, was #10 discussed or was it not? I am getting conflicting reports and very vaguely shrouded responses.

Offline Puppylove

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2008, 10:38:26 AM »
Having said this, I'm disappointed to learn that Mr. King (whom I respect and don't believe I've ever disparaged), would find only "bemusement" on a forum such as this. Is anyone, published or not, credentialed or not, really so completely confident in their own knowledge that they've nothing left to learn?

I apologize for throwing your "newbie" status in your face again, but if you'd seen the way some of the book discussion threads have gone in the past, you'd be hard pressed to choose between being bemused and appalled.


No apology needed Sarushka, by the way it's retro-newbie! ;) Just goes to show you people should speak and write carefully because their words may well live on long after those people are dead and buried.

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2008, 10:48:50 AM »
I don't understand how exploring this could possibly be 'OT' when Helen is the one who started the thread and this is exactly the topic she wanted addressed. If the thread is to be censored due to the personal feelings some of our members have for Penny, please let us know that is the case.

Correction: Puppylove started the original thread. Helen started this "sequel" thread after the orignal was lost.

You're not being censored. You're being asked repeatedly to start a related discussion in a separate thread.


Quote
I have removed Annie's post as it is OT. This is NOT a discussion about the specific content of any book, unless such specifics are cited ONLY to support the Topic at Hand, ie: the obligations of an author to their readers.

Thank you for your cooperation.

FA

Do an author's obligation to their readers not include being more true to history than their own possible goals? If you believe this, then why can't we explore the background that my prove there were issues involved that affected the information in FOTR and how it was presented? This IS on topic, and is the main reason for this thread.

Many of us have noticed the connection between the AA 'agenda' and the 'mistakes'/'bad editing' in FOTR, and would like some answers. How is this not an author's obligation?

(note to all: my posts included the same info I had in the now deleted thread, apparently now this is taboo. To those I promised this post to, please know that I tried)

Again, all you need to do is start a new thread. How about this: "Questions about FOTR"
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Offline Annie

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2008, 11:03:04 AM »
I don't understand how exploring this could possibly be 'OT' when Helen is the one who started the thread and this is exactly the topic she wanted addressed. If the thread is to be censored due to the personal feelings some of our members have for Penny, please let us know that is the case.

Correction: Puppylove started the original thread. Helen started this "sequel" thread after the orignal was lost.

You're not being censored. You're being asked repeatedly to start a related discussion in a separate thread.


Quote
I have removed Annie's post as it is OT. This is NOT a discussion about the specific content of any book, unless such specifics are cited ONLY to support the Topic at Hand, ie: the obligations of an author to their readers.

Thank you for your cooperation.

FA

Do an author's obligation to their readers not include being more true to history than their own possible goals? If you believe this, then why can't we explore the background that my prove there were issues involved that affected the information in FOTR and how it was presented? This IS on topic, and is the main reason for this thread.

Many of us have noticed the connection between the AA 'agenda' and the 'mistakes'/'bad editing' in FOTR, and would like some answers. How is this not an author's obligation?

(note to all: my posts included the same info I had in the now deleted thread, apparently now this is taboo. To those I promised this post to, please know that I tried)

Again, all you need to do is start a new thread. How about this: "Questions about FOTR"

But this thread, and the original, were started for this purpose! FOTR has not and will not be the only book discussed.

Offline Puppylove

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2008, 11:11:51 AM »
Annie, there are only two possible outcomes to this thread if FOTR is mentioned, the mods will either delete all those references or lock the thread entirely. It's better for the book to have a dedicated thread, if you want your voice to be heard clearly.
"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

"...and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Offline Sarushka

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Re: historical accuracy/ethics question regarding writing books
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2008, 11:15:09 AM »
I've started a thread for the specific questions regarding FOTR that have risen out of this discussion:

Questions about FOTR

Annie, you'll find that I've already pasted some of your inquiries there. I hope that thread will proceed to your satisfaction.
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