The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum
 
 User Info & Key Stats   
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
October 30, 2014, 10:29:54 PM
462250 Posts in 8977 Topics by 14524 Members
Latest Member: venus48220
News: We think Pallasart is the best web design company in Austin and for good reason - they make this forum possible! Looking for a website? Call them at 512 469-7454.
+  The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum
|-+  Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty
| |-+  The Tudors (Moderators: Kimberly, Prince_Lieven, BobAtchison, Forum Admin)
| | |-+  The plantagenets
  0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author
Topic: The plantagenets  (Read 19373 times)
« on: February 27, 2008, 12:34:40 PM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile

I am after so much information on the following Plantagenets, any pictures or info is great:

Geoffrey & Joan the children of Henry II, Eleanor daughter of Edward I & Beatrice daughter of Henry III. I always find the people I seem to take intrest in are very hard to find information on! Pictures would be great as I would like to see what they would actually have looked like. I have read all of the Wikipedia info on them which doesnt contain much, any information would be great.

Thanks Wink
Logged
Reply #1
« on: February 28, 2008, 02:43:40 AM »
Kimberly Offline
Moderator
Velikye Knyaz
*****
Loyaulte me lie Posts: 3117

View Profile

Beatrice, daughter of Henry III
Born 25th June 1242 at Bordeaux. Married John de Montfort of Dreux, Earl of Richmond, afterwards John II, Duke of Brittany (1239-1305) on 22nd January 1260 at the Abbey of St. Denis, Paris. They had 7 children together. Beatrice died on 24th March 1275 in London and perhaps buried in Reading Abbey Berkshire. It is thought that her remains were later removed to Greyfriars Church, Newgate, London and her tomb were lost during the Reformation.

Off-spring;
1. Arthur II Duke of Brittany.(1262-1312).

2. John, Earl of Richmond (1266?-1334).

3. Peter, Count of Leon. (d, 1312).

4. Mary. (1268-1339).

5. Eleanor/Alice.(1274-1329).

6.Blanche. (d 1327).

7. Henry. (died young 1284.)

Logged

Member of the Richard III Society
Reply #2
« on: February 28, 2008, 04:22:20 AM »
Mari Offline
Knyaz
****
Posts: 998

View Profile

Edward I had two daughters named Eleanor so I assume you mean the older one. By his wife Eleanor of Castile he had 16 children and by his second wife he had three children.

# Eleanor, born ca. 17 June 1264 (or possibly as late as 1269, although the issue rolls of 1302 describe her as Edward's eldest daughter) and died 12 October 1298. She was long betrothed to Alfonso III of Aragon, who died in 1291 before the marriage could take place, and on 20 September 1293 she married Count Henry III of Bar. child of Edward I and Eleanor of Castile

   3. Eleanor, born 4 May 1306 at Winchester, died in 1311 at Amesbury Abbey, Wiltshire, buried in Beaulieu Abbey, Hants. Child of Edward I and Marguerite of France

Eleanor of England was born on 17 June 1264 at Windsor Castle, Windsor, Berkshire, England.2 She was the daughter of Edward I 'Longshanks', King of England and Eleanor de Castilla, Comtesse de Ponthieu. She married Alfonso III, Rey de Aragón, son of Pedro III, Rey de Aragón and Constance of Sicily, on 15 August 1290 at Westminster Abbey, Westminster, London, England, in a by proxy marriage.2 She married Henry III de Bar, Comte de Bar on 20 September 1293.2 She died on 12 October 1298 at age 34 at Gent, Belgium.3 She was also reported to have died on 12 October 1297. She was buried at Westminster Abbey, Westminster, London, England.3
Children of Eleanor of England and Henry III de Bar, Comte de Bar

    * Lady Eleanor de Bar 1
    * Edouard I de Bar, Comte de Bar b. 1294, d. 13371
    * Joan de Bar b. 1295, d. 13611

http://www.thepeerage.com/p10191.htm#i101905

This is interesting

:Eleanor (June 1269 - August 1298) was the eldest surviving daughter, a full fifteen years older than her brother Edward. She didn't marry until she was twenty-four, more than three years after the next two sisters in line were married and about ten years later than you'd expect of a noble woman in this period. (Edward I's granddaughters were married at about thirteen).
http://edwardthesecond.com/familyofedwardii/brothersandsistersofedwardiipartone.html

also this: from the google book The History of the Worthies of England
http://books.google.com/books?id=bNPNNo8yBp8C&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=eleanor+daughter+of+edward+i+1298+picture+of+tomb&source=web&ots=x2EBFZfSg0&sig=-89mFx_uZoe9SMYFJ1iv6Vxr35U&hl=en

Logged
Reply #3
« on: February 28, 2008, 12:36:03 PM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile

Thanks!! Very interesting information as always, does anyone have any pictures of the Plantagenets?
Logged
Reply #4
« on: February 29, 2008, 11:19:04 PM »
Alianore Offline
Newbie
*
When the king spoke, it was with Despenser's voice Posts: 68

View Profile WWW

Eleanor, daughter of Edward I and Eleanor of Castile, was born shortly before 17 June 1269, on which day Henry III ordered a "grant to John de Beaumes, yeoman of Eleanor, consort of Edward the king's son, for bringing the good news of the birth of her daughter Eleanor".  (Patent Rolls)

The word used in 1302 to describe her, primogenita, means 'eldest surviving daughter' not 'eldest daughter'.  Edward I and Eleanor's eldest daughters were Katherine, born sometime between about 1261 and 1263 and died 1264, and Joan, born and died 1265.

Eleanor (born 1269) was long betrothed to Alfonso III of Aragon, but he and his father Pedro III had a long-running battle with the papacy, and a succession of Popes refused to grant him a dispensation to marry Eleanor.  Finally, he got one, and began making preparations for their wedding in Barcelona, but then died suddenly in June 1291 before it could take place, at the age of 25 (he was born November 1265). 

In Sept 1293, Eleanor married Count Henri III of Bar and had 2 children: Edouard, count of Bar (c. 1294 to 1336) and Jeanne (c. 1295 to 1361) who married John de Warenne, earl of Surrey - a disastrous marriage, and John spent decades trying to annul the marriage so he could marry his mistress instead!  Eleanor died at the age of 29 in 1298.

John II, duke of Brittany, widower of Henry III's daughter Beatrice, died in a bizarre accident in October 1305.  He was leading Pope Clement V's horse around Avignon, during the Pope's inuaguration (or whatever you call it) when a wall fell on him and crushed him to death!!
Logged

"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde."  Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other:  Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II

http://edwardthesecond.blogspot.com/
Reply #5
« on: February 29, 2008, 11:51:58 PM »
Mari Offline
Knyaz
****
Posts: 998

View Profile

Geoffrey the Son of Henry II

He was fifteen years old when he joined the first revolt against his father, and was later reconciled to Henry in 1174, when he took part in the truce meetings at Gisors (when Richard was not present) and later, when Richard was reconciled at a place between Tours and Amboise. Geoffrey also figured prominently in the second revolt of 1183, fighting against Richard on the side of the Young King.

He was a good friend of the French king Philip Augustus, and the two statesmen were frequently in alliance against King Henry. Geoffrey spent much time at Philip's court in Paris, and Philip made him his seneschal. There is evidence to suggest that Geoffrey was planning another rebellion with Philip's help during his final period in Paris in the summer of 1186. As a participant in so many rebellions against his father, Geoffrey acquired a reputation for treachery. Gerald of Wales said the following of him: "He has more aloes than honey in him; his tongue is smoother than oil; his sweet and persuasive eloquence has enabled him to dissolve the firmest alliances and his powers of language to throw two kingdoms into confusion..."

Geoffrey also was known to attack monasteries and churches in order to raise funds for his campaigns. This lack of reverence for religion earned him the displeasure of the Church and also of the majority of chroniclers who were to write the definitive accounts of his life.

Death

Geoffrey died on August 19, 1186, at the age of twenty-eight. There are two possible versions of what happened to him: the more common story is that he was trampled to death during a jousting tournament. At his funeral, a grief-stricken Philip was said to have tried to jump into the coffin with him. The source of this story is Roger of Hoveden's chronicle, and the detail of Philip's hysterical grief comes from Gerald of Wales. However, the chronicle of Rigord, a French royal clerk, claims that Geoffrey died of a sudden illness: an attack of acute abdominal pain, which apparently happened immediately after Geoffrey made a speech to Philip, boasting of his intentions to lay waste to Normandy. It is possible that this version of events was an invention of the chronicler, the sudden illness representing God's judgement on an ungrateful son for plotting rebellion against his father and for his lack of regard for religion. Alternatively, the tournament story itself may have been an invention, created by Philip to prevent a plot from being discovered by Henry II. By inventing a purely social reason, a tournament, for Geoffrey to be in Paris, Philip would have obscured the probable nature of their plotting. See [1]


 Sources

    * Everard, Judith. Charters of Duchess Constance of Brittany and her Family, 1171-1221, 1999
    * Everard, Judith. Brittany and the Angevins: Province and Empire, 1158-1203, 2000
    * Gillingham, John. The Life and Tmes of Richard I, 1973
    * Reston, James. Warriors of God: Richard the Lion-Heart and Saladin in the Third Crusade, 2001
http://halfvalue.com/wiki.jsp?topic=Geoffrey_II%2C_Duke_of_Brittany

Joan of England .....Apparently she was her brother Richard's favorite Sister

oan was married in October 1196, at Rouen, to Raymond VI of Toulouse, with Quercy and the Agenais as her dowry. She was the mother of his successor Raymond VII of Toulouse (1197-1249), and a short lived daughter (1198).

This new husband treated her none too gently, however, and Joan came to fear him and his knights. In 1199, while pregnant with a third child, Joan was left alone to face a rebellion in which the lords of Saint-Félix-de-Caraman were prominent. She laid siege to their castle at les Cassčs but was menaced by treachery. Escaping this threat, Joan travelled northwards, hoping for her brother's protection, but found him dead at Chalus.[1] She then fled to her mother Queen Eleanor's court at Rouen, where she was offered refuge and care.

Joan asked to be admitted to Fontevrault Abbey, an unusual request for a married, pregnant woman, but this request was granted. She died in childbirth and was veiled a nun on her deathbed. Her son lived just long enough to be baptised (he was named Richard). Joan was thirty-three years old. She was buried at Fontevrault Abbey, and fifty years later her son Raymond VII would be interred next to her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_England%2C_Queen_of_Sicily
    * Payne, Robert. The Dream and the Tomb, 1984
    * Owen, D.D.R. Eleanor of Aquitaine: Queen and Legend
    * Wheeler, Bonnie. Eleanor of Aquitaine: Lord and Lady, 2002

    * Robert of Torigni
    * Roger of Hoveden
    * Ralph of Diceto
    * Duvernoy, Jean, editor (1976), written at Paris, Guillaume de Puylaurens, Chronique 1145-1275: Chronica magistri Guillelmi de Podio Laurentii, CNRS, ISBN 2910352064



Logged
Reply #6
« on: March 01, 2008, 12:21:54 AM »
Mari Offline
Knyaz
****
Posts: 998

View Profile

more on Geoffrey: Source: The Historical Works of Giraldus Cambrensis. Translated by Thomas Forester; revised by Thomas Wright. London: George Bell, 1887; pp. 157-164.

OF THE PRINCES OF BRITANNY AND IRELAND. [Geoffrey and John]
 
The Armorican-British and the Irish dominions proclaim the well-merited praises of the two others. Both of them were of rather short stature, a little below the middle height, and for their size were well-shaped enough. Of these, the one is already distinguished by his virtues, and has attained the highest honours; the other will. The one is well versed in military affairs; the other has to be instructed in them. The one is corn in the ear, the other in the blade. The one is already great in action, the other leads us to expect he will be great; for not degenerating from his high origin, he has equaled his most noble brothers in worth as far as his powers admit. Hence whether he originally derived it from the parent stock or from parity [with his brothers], it could not degenerate in his time. The one is an eloquent and astute man, and as he could not easily be deceived, is most prudent, if he would not deceive. In two wars, and in various ways imitating Ulysses as well as Achilles, he has been ever, alas! ungrateful to his father, and in this has trod in the footsteps of his elder brother, too plainly marked. He has more aloes then honey in him; his tongue is smoother than oil; his sweet and persuasive eloquence has enabled him to dissolve the firmest alliances and his powers of language to throw two kingdoms into confusion; for with wonderful industry he assumes all shapes, and dissembles all his designs. But as a man of many words will not be guided in his ways on the earth, the Lord hath not directed his goings, nor multiplied his days.
 
The other, led away by the fervour of youth and ensnared by its passions, is prone to vice, and rude to his monitors; lending himself to the sedu

ctions of his time of life, instead of resisting the impulses of nature. Hitherto, therefore, by reason of his age, he is more given to pleasures than to arms, to dalliance than to endurance, to Juvenile levity, more as yet, than to manly maturity, which he has not attained. He employs most of his time in those evil courses which gallants pursue, by which even youths who are naturally good are often roused to feats of arms and soar from the camp of Cupid to the arts and towers of Pallas. As, then, he has obeyed the laws of green youth so he will conform to those of subsequent age. Since therefore, it is no disgrace to have enjoyed the pleasures of youth, but the shame lies in not bringing them to an end, Juvenile levity is excusable if the mature age be commendable; and that stage of life is blameless, if age sets bounds to indulgence. The tree which bends its boughs downwards cannot strike deep roots.
 
This is the last of the three brothers; may he not be the last in virtue; but being always dutiful to both his parents, may his days be long and prosperous on earth! May he as truly conform to the description given by Merlinus A mbrosius, in a prophecy much noised abroad, of the man before whom the walls of Ireland shall fall, as he appears to answer to it. "His beginning," it says, ˇshall be abandoned to loose living, but his end shall waft him to heaven."
Logged
Reply #7
« on: March 01, 2008, 01:08:41 AM »
Mari Offline
Knyaz
****
Posts: 998

View Profile

More on Joan of England, Daughter of Henry II:

Lots of information here on Joan....

http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art142.htm
Logged
Reply #8
« on: March 03, 2008, 12:56:00 PM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile

Thanks Mari, I would say Joan is probably my favourite.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pis&GRid=8534574&PIgrid=8534574&PIcrid=639061&PIpi=8437038&

I found a Pic of her finally!!
Logged
Reply #9
« on: March 04, 2008, 01:03:29 AM »
Mari Offline
Knyaz
****
Posts: 998

View Profile

Very interesting image of Joan...do you mind if I ask how you got interested in her? Oh, and on Geoffrey I assume you have seen "The Lion in Winter" just for fun. Its an old Movie but I would be interested in your take on Geoffrey in the Movie!
Logged
Reply #10
« on: March 04, 2008, 11:34:24 AM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile

Well I think it's becuase she led quite an interesting life, rather than birth, children, marriage and death. I have learnt she was close to her brother Richard & his wife Berengaria and also close to her mother, she seemed to travell quite a lot & the end of her life was quite tragic. Also her tomb was destroyed, I had hunted for years of a picture of her & found the one above. I think it's quite sad the way a lot of the planagenets images, descriptions & tombs are lost. It is impossible trying to find information on less famous ones.

I havent seen the Lion in winter unfortunatley, but shall have to try get hold of it.
Logged
Reply #11
« on: March 04, 2008, 12:15:37 PM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile

I am trying to find more pictures of the Princes & Princesses of Plantagenet line. Feel free to post any?? I have a few below.




Richard I , Joan & Philip II of France.



Elizabeth daughter of Edward I of England.




Isabel daughter of King John & her husband Emperor Frederick II.



John of Eltham son of Edward II.

Logged
Reply #12
« on: March 04, 2008, 12:40:23 PM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile



Eleanor daughter of Henry II & her husband Alphonso VIII of Castile.



Matilda daughter of Henry II & her husband Henry of Saxony.

     

Eleanor daughter of Edward II & her sister Joan.
Logged
Reply #13
« on: March 04, 2008, 02:39:32 PM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile



John of Gaunt (& Second wife Constance of Castile), son of Edward III.



Thomas of Woodstock, youngest son of Edward III.



Philippa, daughter of Henry IV.
Logged
Reply #14
« on: March 04, 2008, 02:53:10 PM »
matt99 Offline
Newbie
*
Posts: 26

View Profile



This image is of Alexander III of Scotland, I think the woman next to him may possibly be Margaret, daughter of Henry III. (Anyone know?)
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Website by Pallasart - Austin Web Design