Author Topic: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...  (Read 87893 times)

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Offline Puppylove

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2008, 11:15:42 AM »
The presumed Rape on the Rus and the misquote of Volkov's 'left in peace' statement;

This one has been discussed to death.

I spoke to Penny personally on the phone about the Rus/Volkov question. She was adamant that she knew the original Volkov quote, and that it was an editorial error that was missed in a push to publishing deadline when an additional phrase or sentence was eliminated in betweent the two remaining phrases.

I think the Rus/Volkov issue is now dead in the water. Per FA's discussion with Ms Wilson, this question's  been answered and I don't believe any revised answer is in the works.
"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

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Offline Puppylove

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2008, 11:17:39 AM »
Well, at this rate I doubt the thread will exist at sundown!

"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

"...and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Offline Puppylove

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 11:24:17 AM »
A question for Lisa D: Since you and Penny were online at the same time a couple of days ago and the Part II thread was still available then, did she give any indication that she'll be addressing our questions? I know you had planned to discuss this with her.

Thanks, Jenn
"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

"...and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2008, 11:26:27 AM »
Well, at this rate I doubt the thread will exist at sundown!

I think that's the idea, isn't it Simon? ;-)

I emailed Rob about this, and if he feels it's a genuine problem, he will delete the scans, and we can figure out another way of presenting the relevant pages, while avoiding the implications of putting words in the authors' mouths (or pens - as the case may be, lol).

I think the Rus/Volkov issue is now dead in the water. Per FA's discussion with Ms Wilson, this question's  been answered and I don't believe any revised answer is in the works.

The question is dead in the water, but I would still like some sort of an explanation as to how the entire thing could be an "editorial error". I know that we will probably never get any answers to this, or anything else, but I don't want to be accused of not trying. :-)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2008, 11:30:23 AM »
A question for Lisa D: Since you and Penny were online at the same time a couple of days ago and the Part II thread was still available then, did she give any indication that she'll be addressing our questions? I know you had planned to discuss this with her.

Thanks, Jenn

I am sure that Lisa would have told us if she spoke to Wilson about this one way or another. Wouldn't you Lisa?

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2008, 11:39:56 AM »
Helen,

If spending your working day on the computer doing this doesn't hurt your ability to earn a living, I doubt anything I could say would affect it.

Seriously --- I am not trying to stop your questions from receiving answers, just pointing out that there are protocols as to how this kind of thing is done. Your answer seems is that you don't care, and will conduct your interrogation without regard to legal and academic standards. Fair enough.

. Having received an answer, I fold my tent.

Cheers,

Simon
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2008, 11:40:09 AM »
Your answer seems is that you don't care, and will conduct your interrogation without regard to legal and academic standards.

" Legal and academic standards", ouch, that's so harsh! :-)

Ok, we had our fun, now back to the topic, please.

I think the Rus/Volkov issue is now dead in the water. Per FA's discussion with Ms Wilson, this question's  been answered and I don't believe any revised answer is in the works.

The question is dead in the water, but I would still like some sort of an explanation as to how the entire thing could be an "editorial error". I know that we will probably never get any answers to this, or anything else, but I don't want to be accused of not trying. :-)


« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 11:54:00 AM by Helen_A »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2008, 12:00:11 PM »
But as it stands at this time, I would most like some sort of a comment on my initial question about the DNA results, which has never been addressed yet, here or anywhere else as far as I know.

P 445: "To obtain a complete sequence, or mtDNA fingerprint, Gill and Ivanov were forced to look for overlapping, repetitive strands, which were then spliced together to form the missing links in the genetic chain. Although standard practice, this scientific necessity did not provide an unaltered genetic code for the remains, but rather one achieved through manipulation of the available data based on estimation. (*35)" ( * reference 35 is Bryan Sykes' book "The Seven daughters of Eve" p 66-68).

These words the authors use: "forced to look for overlapping", “missing links”, "did not provide an unaltered genetic code", "achieved through manipulation", "based on estimation" – all sound very ominous. If the reader doesn't know basic science, this may give him/her the impression that the scientists did something manipulative, speculative, and that the end result didn't produce a clear-cut answer, but instead they ended up with an uncertain and questionable conclusion.
 
In fact, this is absolutely not true. The entire point of mitochondrial DNA sequencing is that it produces an exact sequence - 100% correct sequence over say 600 letters. This is a very important point. If you get one single "altered genetic code" out of 600 letters, this means you got only 99.9% right, and 0.1% wrong answer, which will then ruin the whole theory/conclusion. The 0.1% difference would confirm that these remains were NOT the Romanov family. But this did not happen at all and the result was a 100% match.
 
Greg King and Penny Wilson state that they based these facts on the Bryan Sykes' book. However, if you read pp 66-68 of the said book, Sykes never said such a thing, in fact he said the complete opposite. 
Sykes: "…eventually the sequences of the presumed Tsarina and her three children were typed. They all had exactly the same sequence as 111, 357. They were all an exact match with the Duke of Edinburgh."

Sykes used the word "exact" twice. Not a single reference to the "altered genetic code" or "manipulation" or "estimation".

So, paraphrasing, why do the authors use terms to imply that there were some sort of dodgy dealings going on, and why do they quote a page from a book that says the exact opposite of what they state?
   



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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2008, 01:48:13 PM »
Having given the matter serious thought, I have come to the conclusion that the discussion is about the questioning of specific text in the book.  To have the original text in its entire context is of educational benefit to the discussion, and demonstrates the authors' intent.

Therefore, FOR THE TIME BEING, I will permit the scans of the specific pages in question to remain. HOWEVER, if the authors have the slightest objection, I will remove them immediately upon the authors' request. as it is clearly NOT our intent to infringe upon any copyright.

I think this is a fair resolution to the question. Now, please, lets all stay On Topic and play nice ok?

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2008, 02:06:40 PM »
A question for Lisa D: Since you and Penny were online at the same time a couple of days ago and the Part II thread was still available then, did she give any indication that she'll be addressing our questions? I know you had planned to discuss this with her.

Thanks, Jenn

I am sure that Lisa would have told us if she spoke to Wilson about this one way or another. Wouldn't you Lisa?

In this circumstance, of course. And, I don't mind phoning Penny and seeing if there is anything she would like to pass on to this Forum.

By the way, just because I happen to be here on the Forum at a certain time does not necessarily mean I have any online personal contact with any of you.

Offline Puppylove

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2008, 02:27:56 PM »

By the way, just because I happen to be here on the Forum at a certain time does not necessarily mean I have any online personal contact with any of you.

Right! I didn't mean to imply that at all! It just reminded me that you were going to broach the subject of our questions with her and I thought you might have gotten an answer.
"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

"...and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Offline Annie

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2008, 04:59:59 PM »
Oh good I haven't missed it! I got back before it got deleted, but it still looks headed that way. I had to go to Charlottesville to take my son to spend the weekend with his buddies at UVA. I still can't drive past that big blue Martha Jefferson Hospital this exit sign without thinking about the intestines and laughing.

Thanks very much, Helen, that's right, if we have the orginal text there's no way anyone can say we 'made things up' or misquoted. If the authors had used Volkov's original text there wouldn't be a problem with it today! Of couse, they may not last the night, but for now it's nice to see exactly what was written. Sadly there seems to be more sensationalism and theory presented as fact than nonfiction. It's funny, the same people who support this book tooth and nail have often criticized me for the same things? Go figure! Oh the irony. At least I never charged anyone money for my comments.

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2008, 11:09:47 PM »
Threads about FOTOR don't die - they just come back under a different title.

This may be the most over - discussed yet under - whelming piece of work on the Romanovs to date.

As long as some kind of credit is given to the authors - isn't that enough to let the scans of the pertinent pages stand?   After all, it is not as if Helen is trying to say that she wrote the pages.

Many people don't own the book or have read it from the library.  This way were are all "on the same page" so to speak and have all of the criticized information at hand.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2008, 08:39:51 AM »
As long as some kind of credit is given to the authors - isn't that enough to let the scans of the pertinent pages stand?   After all, it is not as if Helen is trying to say that she wrote the pages.

IMO, no. As an author myself, seeing 8 pages of a text posted without permission makes me rather uncomfortable -- in spite of the obvious aid they will be for discussion.
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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2008, 08:47:39 AM »
As long as some kind of credit is given to the authors - isn't that enough to let the scans of the pertinent pages stand?   After all, it is not as if Helen is trying to say that she wrote the pages.

IMO, no. As an author myself, seeing 8 pages of a text posted without permission makes me rather uncomfortable -- in spite of the obvious aid they will be for discussion.

Which is exactly why I made the decision as I did, above.