Author Topic: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship  (Read 46647 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« on: June 22, 2004, 10:37:00 PM »
From his memoirs, one knows that Felix Y. was a huge admirer of Ella--his mother did not seem to be. Does anyone know the source of this animosity (reflected in the following letter)? Did it go back to days "competing" as a society darling or was it only after she entered the convent or was this merely a bit of pique? I think ZY's attitude towards Ella calling Irina by name is ridiculous BTW--she was a fairly close relation after all and Irina was NOT a grand duchess, unlike Ella herself so rank shouldn't enter into it.

ZY to FY c1916
I do not like the celebrated "sister" [the Grand Duchess Elizaveta Feodorovna Romanov]. In my opinion, she poses most impudently as a member of the family. She calls Irina by her Christian name, and evcn "Tata"! I strongly object to her behaviour. When I visit Irina I constantly find her there, lounging in a chair, without in the least understanding that her presence does not interest me. She sports a kind of operatic costume of a Sister of Mercy, and generally spoils the whole atmosphere by her presence. Irina seems to accept it all as inevitable, whereas I simply cannot stand it. You will see for yourself soon, when you come home.
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Offline Annie

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2004, 04:25:17 PM »
Any pics of them together?

Offline Annie

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2004, 07:28:28 PM »
How about a thread to discuss the friendship of these two ladies, and their alliance against Rasputin that led to them both being disowned by Alexandra? Also, how their relationship may have changed after Ella became a nun, after she had been Zenaida's party girl friend. There were negative comments later on that made me think she was fed up with her though I'm sure they remained friends. Any pics of them together would be more than welcome!

Offline ashanti01

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2004, 02:02:38 AM »
I have often read that both Zenaida and Ella were pretty much two of the top social girls before they both lost very important men in their lives.
Zenaida lost her eldest son Nicholas and Ella lost her husband Sergei.
Its pretty clear that they were both never the same after these events in thier lives, Zenaida mourned her son and Ella in turn became a nun. However, even then they were considered pretty close friends.
Therefore I was very suprised to learn that towards the end they were not as close as I had thought.

I have yet to see a clear a photo of these two together, so I too would welcome any pictures out there.

Offline Martyn

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2004, 05:35:06 PM »
I am pretty sure that this apparent 'rift' between Zenaida and Ella has been explored in another thread; would someone please just refresh memory as to the cause of it, and the evidence that supports this theory?
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Offline Annie

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2004, 09:31:39 AM »
I never heard of a 'rift', just this letter dated Dec 11, 1916 written from Zenaida in the Crimea to Felix in St. Petersburg:

in part:

I do not like the celebrated "sister" [the Grand Duchess Elizaveta Feodorovna Romanov]. In my opinion, she poses most impudently as a member of the family. She calls Irina by her Christian name, and evcn "Tata"! I strongly object to her behaviour. When I visit Irina I constantly find her there, lounging in a chair, without in the least understanding that her presence does not interest me. She sports a kind of operatic costume of a Sister of Mercy, and generally spoils the whole atmosphere by her presence. Irina seems to accept it all as inevitable, whereas I simply cannot stand it. You will see for yourself soon, when you come home. In the meantime,

I send you my best love,

MAMMA


This shows me that contrary to everything I've read before, including Felix's book, Ella and Zenaida were not always on the best of terms. It's my guess that Zenaida was a bit annoyed with Ella's 'sister' act and wanted the 'old' or 'fun' Ella back. I doubt Zenaida had the nerve to say this to Ella's face, and if anything else happened between them I don't know of it. But this does show another side of things. They were still united in the anti-Rasputin movement and I assume were at least somewhat friends to the end.

Still hoping for pics of them together! Brian?

Offline Martyn

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2004, 01:13:19 PM »
That is the passage that I think has been quoted in another thread.  Annie, thanks for reminding us.
It is perfectly possible for even the best of friends to have disagreements and fall-outs; this may well be an example of that.
The Rasputin issue must have been important enough to put aside petty grievances and unite for a serious issue, don't you think?
That passage 'Irina seems to accept it all as inevitable' seems to suggest that Irina shared Zenaida's feelings about Ella......
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Valmont

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2004, 02:03:46 PM »
I wrote about this "distance" between them in another thread. I think it was Zenaida Yussupova's and it was a comment for Greg King whom had just written Zenaida's Biography for the site. I am working from memory here, but  I think he mentioned they were friends even to the last days of Ella, that is when I brought up this letter...

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Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Martyn

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2004, 02:39:33 PM »
The letter is very disparaging.  I don't really understand the comment 'she poses most impudently as a member of the family'.  Would Ella not be considered a relative of Irina's?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2004, 03:35:10 PM »
Only distantly. Ella was a relative by marriage to Irina in that Irina's parents were inlaws to Nicholas and Alexandra, and Ella was Alexandra's sister. I think what Z was saying is that she tried to seem like a member of their family - not the Romanovs. Ella was clearly part of both the Hessian and Russian royal families. However, it's important to remember that the Yussouovs considered themselves superior to the Romanovs, hence Zenaida's annoyance.

Offline Teddy

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2004, 03:56:46 PM »
Still she was a great-aunt of Irina. So family.

Offline Martyn

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2004, 05:14:11 PM »
Quote
Only distantly. Ella was a relative by marriage to Irina in that Irina's parents were inlaws to Nicholas and Alexandra, and Ella was Alexandra's sister. I think what Z was saying is that she tried to seem like a member of their family - not the Romanovs. Ella was clearly part of both the Hessian and Russian royal families. However, it's important to remember that the Yussouovs considered themselves superior to the Romanovs, hence Zenaida's annoyance.


Thank you Lisa.  Of course, I had forgotten about the Yussupov's sense of superiority over the Romanovs.  And yes, I see now that Zenaida meant that Ella was posturing as a member of the Yussupov family as oposed to the Romanov family......How dense I am, late at night....
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

bluetoria

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2004, 06:11:08 AM »
I really do not believe that the 'celebrated sister' is Ella. By then many women were wearing 'sisters of mercy' uniforms - i.e. were nurses - and the fact that Zenaida objects to her calling Irina by her Christian name seems to suggest it cannot be Ella she is describing. Moreover, would Ella really be lounging in a chair at the Youssupovs when she was so preoccupied with all her war/charity/religious work?
Incidentally, Zenaida was one of the first people at Ella's side after Serge's assasination...a good friend.

Offline Martyn

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2004, 08:44:04 AM »
Quote
I really do not believe that the 'celebrated sister' is Ella. By then many women were wearing 'sisters of mercy' uniforms - i.e. were nurses - and the fact that Zenaida objects to her calling Irina by her Christian name seems to suggest it cannot be Ella she is describing. Moreover, would Ella really be lounging in a chair at the Youssupovs when she was so preoccupied with all her war/charity/religious work?
Incidentally, Zenaida was one of the first people at Ella's side after Serge's assasination...a good friend.


But does not the 'a kind of operatic costume of a Sister of Mercy' comment refer to a nun's habit?   I am assumimg that this is what was meant, as opposed to a nurse's uniform?
Also, Segei was assasianted in 1905, this letter was written in 1916 - so many things can happen in eleven years, and some friendships do not stand the test of time, however strong initially.....
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

bluetoria

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Re: The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2004, 11:25:45 AM »
I think the sisters of mercy was a term used to describe nurses rather than nuns. I was just adding the bit about Zenaida being there after Serge's death as an aside rather than to say they remain friends. But I really don't think this can refer to Ella...and Felix was particularly close to her wasn't he?