Author Topic: Communist people we like  (Read 51874 times)

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Offline JD

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2004, 10:17:46 PM »
I'm sorry, but is that really appropriate? Are you intending to mock Lenin or to offend posters here?

Offline Olga

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Re: Communist people that we like
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2004, 10:18:30 PM »
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I know that Dzerzhinsky and Mao are still revered by some on the far-Left.


I'm on the Far-Left and you don't see me kowtowing to their statues, do you?

Dashkova

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2004, 10:24:02 PM »
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I'm sorry, but is that really appropriate? Are you intending to mock Lenin or to offend posters here?


Not at all! I am honoring an art form I much admire, and have studied a great deal -- Socialist Realism!

This thread is entitled:  "Communist people we like" sooo if that offends you maybe you should investigate threads more to your liking!

Offline C.J._Griffin

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« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2004, 10:27:32 PM »

OMG! Lenin Celebrating Christmas?!?! Could that be the same Lenin who ordered the execution of thousands of priests, monks, and nuns?

« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 08:43:06 AM by Alixz »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2004, 10:37:30 PM »
CJ, what you are seeing here, that's not a Christmas tree, it's a "New Year tree". During communists the tree was put up for new year and this was not considered in any way a religious thing, just a festive thing. Many young people didn't even realize what the tree is supposed to symbolize...

Dashkova

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2004, 10:56:33 PM »
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I suppose that's true, but at the very least this was the 'official' version of the "new year" tree. And I am pretty sure Lenin didn't celebrate it as an Orthodox religious tradition, at least not as an adult.


No, but he didn't mind if others did.

Offline JD

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2004, 11:10:30 PM »
Also, on a different subject I think it is important to distinguish between Socialism and Communism.  

Dashkova

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2004, 11:13:06 PM »
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i just think that an avatar of lenin (albeit a bizarre one) and underneath the text "merry lenin christmas" is inappropriate for this site. unless you're just mocking him (like olga is with trotsky) and you don't seem to be.


Well, I don't think Olga is "mocking" Trotsky. I believe she quite fancies his looks, actually.  The mocking has to do with the little imperial fluffballs who have devoted entire threads to saying:  "Isn't Nicky cute!" squeal, blush, giggle!! (repeat ad nauseum).

However, as far as I know (Olya correct me if I'm wrong), she thinks Trotsky to have been quite the dish.

I too, am not mocking Lenin.  I think the photo in question is charming and dear, and appropriate to the holiday season.

~~sigh~~ JD, just try to avert your eyes, ok?  There are avatars here that I don't care much for either, but it's kind of a personal thing, and a reflection of one's tastes, wouldn't you say?
To each his own.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2004, 11:13:27 PM »
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The thing is, and what he felt was pointless to mention at that juncture, is that his life was FINE in the USSR, it was only Gorbachev's stupidity and mismanagement that helped to bring on the disasters that caused so MANY Russians to flee their homeland.

.


Actually, many many former Russian citizens fled their homeland way before Gorbachev, back in the 1970's during Brezhnev. This was what was called the third wave of immigration. Things were pretty bad before anyone ever heard of Gorby, but I guess it just depends on who you talk to. For some people things were just fine, your husband's family must have been one of them, for many others not fine at all. Of course now, things seem to be even worse for most, at least back then you didn't see the little old ladies begging in the streets like they do nowadays.
Problem is, it would take a miracle worker to fix what some of those 'fearless' leaders had done to this poor country, a country that had so much potential. Their mistake as is that they didn't take human nature into consideration. And now they think they can jump from whatever it is that they had, straight to the western system, and that's never going to work. Gorbachev alone is not to blame here, this was a group effort that led to the situation they are in now.  
But I agree, this Katzen guy should have asked your husband before he made those kinds of statements in front of everyone. But that wasn't propaganda, that was just stupidity and cluelessness.  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Offline JD

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2004, 11:21:23 PM »
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Ahem...you would be preaching to the choir.  Those of us who regularly post on these threads, with leanings to Leninist ideas know FULL well that Lenin et al were socialists.

As has been told to me endless times by those who grew up in the system and were members of the Communist Party, "Communism" was the IDEAL that Socialism strived for. It was an ideal, a goal that hopefully someday would be obtained. At least, in the Soviet Union this was the case, and that is the socialism we generally discuss in these threads.

By calling Lenin et al socialists you are tainting modern day leftists who are trying to make a real difference instead of seizing p ower and delivering the same old. Communism as practiced wasn't the "ideal" anything, other than the ideal wet dream brought to life for a few pigs.

Socialists /= Communists
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by JD »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2004, 11:43:43 PM »
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Katzen was promoting his own cause by creating a "feel good" atmosphere of how great it is to have defeated the USSR and helped Russians escape from same.  

As for Gorbachev, I realize he is not the only one to blame.  Try telling that to most any Russian!  And he DID make monumental errors that contributed greatly (perhaps the straws that broke the camel's back?) to the destruction of the economy and even social structure of the country.



Katzen helped Russians escape?  ???

I think any Russian (or anyone else) who is capable of abstract analysis probably sees that things are not so simple and that many many things have led up to this "straw that broke the camel's back".  If it weren't Gorbachev, someone else would have tried to do something  else, with most likely the same outcome. Something had to give - it was time, Gorbachev just happened to be there for the ride. The system did not work and everyone knew it (except maybe a few priviledged who knew it, but didn't really want to know it). Not to say that the system worked before that, it didn't either. This is why I say it would take a miracle worker to resolve things over there right now after the mess of so many centuries, the system didn't work for so long that it will take a very long time now to even remotely set it back on track. But they had to start somewhere and things generally have to get worse before they get better. They won't be able to resolve anything in any of our lifetimes, I am pretty sure about that.

Offline JD

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2004, 11:51:52 PM »
"Communism was never practiced in the USSR"

Well that's a whole nother bag of worms.  What is Communism but what it exists as? You can talk about Theoretical Communism ("nice") and Practical/Practiced Communism (not nice) just like you can talk about theoretical and practiced Christianity.  Both have pretty awful track records as practiced.  And both are worthy of being condemned in the dominant states imo.


As for your other comments -

This is not a Russian History forum.  It is a forum primarily devoted to the last Tsar. Everything else is secondary.  The moderators seem very open-minded and I appreciate that, but I hope their tolerance will not be taken advantage of.

I don't expect everyone agrees with me. I hope they'll chime in either way. Maybe I really am making a mountain out of a molehill here.  But I can't help but feel you're deliberately trying to offend people with your avatar, and that's what upsets me.

My last comment?  I think most people here will agree with it.  And it was an Animal Farm reference, but I really do believe Lenin, Stalin, Breznev, Beria etc were "pigs".  Lenin was not a saint and not a deliverer.  He was a Machiavellian genius who took advantage of the proletariat he was pretending to represent for purely selfish reasons.  A true Socialist would not hold in high regard a Lenin or a Mao - I find that characteristic highly disturbing and a signifier of a deluded, or just plain fascistic, mind.



Offline Olga

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2004, 07:31:50 AM »
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to the family he had murdered.


This has been discussed ad nauseum. Vladimir Ilich did not have the Imperial Family and their entourage murdered. It was the Ural Regional Soviet that made the decision.

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One last question though - are you and Olga, by any chance, college freshmen? You certainly fit the stereotype rather well.  ;)


I enter my final year of highschool next year. So, if I understand American slang correctly, then I'm not old enough to be a freshman (or freshwoman) yet.

May I enquire as to what the stereotype of a college freshman is?


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by olga »

Dashkova

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2004, 08:53:55 AM »


Here is Inessa Armand, another "communist" I like, though don't really agree with her bedroom politics!

Dashkova

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Re: Communist people we like
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2004, 09:00:44 AM »


A Soviet lady who was allowed to fully participate in her country's space program, unlike her American sisters!