Author Topic: Charles August of Zweibrucken  (Read 18133 times)

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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Charles August of Zweibrucken
« on: July 10, 2008, 10:54:18 AM »
Hello, does anyone know what happened to Charles of Zweibrucken (1746-1795) who wanted to marry Archduchess Amalie of Austria ? He eventually married Amelia of Saxony in 1774. Was the marriage happy and did they have any children? Was there a son who died young? I know the throne went to his brother Maximilian, who eventually became the first king of Bavaria.

I find it interesting that Amalie of Austria's daughter (Caroline of Bourbon-Parma) eventually married Maximilian, the younger brother of Amelia
of Saxony.  It would have been a bit unusual to have the daughter of the woman you once loved as a sister in law.....

Any info would be appreciated!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 10:59:09 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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charles august of zweibrucken
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2008, 10:58:11 AM »
I also wanted to ask how he was a person.... and would he had been a good match to Amalie of Austria? He was described as intelligent and good looking. I guess Amalie never got over her disappointment and that was probably one of the reasons why she 'rebelled' in Parma.
Thanks!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 11:04:39 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline Marc

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2008, 12:24:47 PM »
Well,obviously at the time Maria Theresia thought that he was not good enough for her daughter...

Offline Mischa

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2008, 01:58:55 PM »
Karl August had a son named Karl August Friedrich, who was born in 1776 and died 1784.

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 10:34:01 AM »
Thanks for your replies.  :)

So, he had one child then. As far as I  know, his wife was around 11 years younger than he was and I'm surprised they didn't have more children. She was also the choice of bride by the Dauphine Maria Josepha for her son, the future Louis XVI, who married Marie Antoinette.  I also read that he was eccentric and built this great palace (Karlsberg Palace) yet he wanted to be alone and hated people being around. Can anyone confirm his eccentricity and how was it manifested, if true?
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 11:57:59 AM »
Interestingly Amalia of Saxony also had Hapsburg blood... ;)

Offline VN

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2008, 01:01:00 PM »
Thanks for your replies.  :)

So, he had one child then. As far as I  know, his wife was around 11 years younger than he was and I'm surprised they didn't have more children. She was also the choice of bride by the Dauphine Maria Josepha for her son, the future Louis XVI, who married Marie Antoinette.  I also read that he was eccentric and built this great palace (Karlsberg Palace) yet he wanted to be alone and hated people being around. Can anyone confirm his eccentricity and how was it manifested, if true?


Karl II August von Pfalz-Zweibrücken was a difficult character, this is what I remember reading about him. His parents didn't have a happy marriage. His uncle Herzog Christian IV von Zweibrücken thought that Karl was very stubborn and complicated. As Karl grew older there relationship became a bit better. After Christian IV died, Karl II August (as heir to Zweibrücken) refused to acceppt the morganetic marriage of Christian and his wife Marie of Forbach (Marianne Camasse). 

Resently I read about a Caroline Augusta Freiin Gayling von Altheim (1748-1823), she was the  longtime "grande maitresse" of Karl. As a young man Karl II August tried everything to marry her, because he loved her, but his relatives wouldn't allow it.  He had her marry 1776 Ludwig Freiherr von Esebeck, later 'secretary of staat' of Zweibrücken.  If you live in Zweibrücken his name should ring a bell. As of 1778 Caroline was the Obersthofmeisterin (Chief Lady in waiting in english ?!) to Herzogin Maria Amalia, the woman Karl had to marry. It was said that Karl respected Maria Amalia, but could not love her. Caroline had to stay in Karl and Maria Amalias Household, in later years she wanted to retire, but Karl refused to let her go.   

If you can read german I would suggest to get the book: Der Herzog und die Tänzerin. Die merkwürdige Geschichte Christians IV von Zweibrücken.   written by Prinz Adalbert von Bayern 1966.  You should be able to purchase it through Eurobooks or Antiquario. If not you should go to a library and lend it through "fernleihe". Karl is discribed through the eyes of his uncle. The sad story of his mistress is from another source - Letters from Salome von Gelieu.

You also should get information about Karl in the Zweibrücker Stadtmuseum. But it could depent on the exhibition they have. I think they have more info on his father Friedrich Michael, younger brother of Christian.

Hope this gives you a little more information.




Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 12:35:57 PM »
Thanks for the info. I wonder if Karl and Amalia had exchanged love letters.  ???

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 08:31:24 PM »
That was more than a little information, VN... thank you very much!  ;D

He does seem complicated..... and what a situation for him that he wanted to marry two girls (Archduchess Amalia and this Caroline) yet he wasn't able to. I wonder if he met this Caroline after or before he proposed of Archduchess Amalia....and what a set-up --your wife and your mistress under one roof and have the latter as part of your wife's household.

I do know a bit of German, when I get better at it, I will look into the stuff you mentioned.

Many thanks again! 
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Offline VN

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 03:45:07 AM »
You're welcome!

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 01:12:54 PM »
Yes...I don't think Amalia knew about this Caroline...Otherwise she would have stormed... ;D

Offline Mari

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 06:27:56 PM »
What time frame was Caroline mistress? How many years? and when did it start?  :)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 11:17:46 AM »
I think it was said he wanted to marry Caroline as a young man. Guess the time frame of Caroline and Amalia did overlapped... ;D

Offline VN

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2008, 03:06:07 AM »
They knew from each other. Caroline was the Oberhofmeisterin, don't know what it is called in english, maybe head lady in waiting? She took care of the "household" so I think they lived at least for a while under one roof until Caroline got married to Freiherr von Esebeck. Caroline is also known as  Freiherrin Caroline von Esebeck.
Amalie didn't treat Caroline very well, this is what I read. But I just think both women where forced into their positions, well sort of. So they had to make the best of it.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Charles August of Zweibrucken
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2008, 01:43:21 PM »
Well...It is understanable not to treat your rival with consideration if given the chance. Both didn't got him in the end though...