Author Topic: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.  (Read 124093 times)

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Offline sgc

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2008, 02:21:36 PM »
Been reading Nicholas and Alexandra: The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Russia, which I bought a few weeks ago. On page 380, there's a photograph of a small fragment of wallpaper with a stain of blood that was found by those investigating the death of the family a few weeks later. Above the stain is an inscription supposedly written the night of the killings in Germany from "Besatzar".

So sorry: I committed a typo and didn't catch it. The inscription was not written in Germany (the country)...it was written in German (the language)!

Offline nena

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2008, 02:26:57 PM »
sgc, do you mean this photo:

-Ars longa, vita brevis -
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Offline sgc

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2008, 02:56:30 PM »
Here you go...this is a much better scan than the one you already have.






Offline tom_romanov

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2008, 03:01:18 PM »

Rest Forever In Peace Nicholas, Alexandra, Olga, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia, and Alexei....you'll be forever remembered!
[/quote]



fasinating photo! but sad also. but as to the quote above we always seem to forget the faithful servants :(

Offline nena

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2008, 03:06:56 PM »
Thank you, a lot, sgc! R.I.P. NAOTMAA and servants followed you.......
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
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Offline sgc

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2008, 03:16:20 PM »
You're absolutely correct on the point of honoring the others who perished. I've got my own feelings regarding those who didn't have to be there and still stayed, as well as those who deserted and ran like the wind as far away as possible. There are also two individuals that don't get mentioned quite as often as they should: Pierre Gilliard and Charles Sidney Gibbes. Both remained loyal to the end, although they were denied access to be with the family in the Ipiatiev House...where they most likely would have died on the night of 17 July 1918 with the rest.

Offline tom_romanov

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2008, 03:24:53 PM »
i totally agree with you sgc but i think one person who should have been with the family in ipatiev house should have been buxhoeveden after all she kept saying she was so faithful towards the family..... ;)  ::)

Offline sgc

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2008, 03:41:05 PM »
i totally agree with you sgc but i think one person who should have been with the family in ipatiev house should have been buxhoeveden after all she kept saying she was so faithful towards the family..... ;)  ::)

Now there is an interesting case. I am amazed at how many folks are split right down the middle as to whether she was friend or foe in those final months.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2008, 04:06:58 PM »
Bux. was totally loyal to the IF, and there is no real evidence to believe otherwise.  She was released by the Bolsheviks along with Gilliard and Gibbes because they believed from her name that she was German, not Russian.  I did rather a lot of research into the basis for the claims that Bux.  betrayed the family, and the evidence turned out to have been made up by a Bolshevik sleazebag, who was married to Rasputin's daughter, and acting as a double agent, collecting funds from the loyalists to the Regime, pocketing the money then turning in anyone trying to help Nicholas to the Bolsheviks. 

Anna Vyroubova sent a large sum of money to Ekaterinburg, which she raised in Petrograd, to support the IF.  The double agent recieved the money, then "said" he gave it to Bux.  She of course never got it.  It was his lie that people were using to believe she betrayed the IF.  The truth is that she didn't betray them ever.


Offline tom_romanov

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2008, 04:09:59 PM »
 :-[ oops never knew that. perhaps my opinon on her has changed

Offline Annie

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2008, 04:51:45 PM »
Bux. was totally loyal to the IF, and there is no real evidence to believe otherwise.  She was released by the Bolsheviks along with Gilliard and Gibbes because they believed from her name that she was German, not Russian.  I did rather a lot of research into the basis for the claims that Bux.  betrayed the family, and the evidence turned out to have been made up by a Bolshevik sleazebag, who was married to Rasputin's daughter, and acting as a double agent, collecting funds from the loyalists to the Regime, pocketing the money then turning in anyone trying to help Nicholas to the Bolsheviks. 

Anna Vyroubova sent a large sum of money to Ekaterinburg, which she raised in Petrograd, to support the IF.  The double agent recieved the money, then "said" he gave it to Bux.  She of course never got it.  It was his lie that people were using to believe she betrayed the IF.  The truth is that she didn't betray them ever.



The only thing I disagree with is that I thought she said they took her name to be Swedish not German (it was Danish) It's a terrible shame how this woman's name has been dragged through the mud unfairly. The rumor was started by double agents and perpetuated sadly to this day by AA supporters who try to use the 'betrayal' as 'proof' AA was AN since AA said it, and AA was flatly rejected by Bux. It's not true. If you read her book "Left Behind" here on AP you can see what a terrible time she had getting out of Russia, and was finally only able to leave because of help from the British. The whole tale that she betrayed them in exchange for her own safety is total rubbish, she never had any protection from them, she ran in fear of her life for over a year.  It's time to clear this lady's name.

http://alexanderpalace.org/leftbehind

Offline tom_romanov

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2008, 05:28:17 AM »
now i learn more about her my opion is ever changing. the first i read about her was the saga on the RUS and i forget which book it was but it basically balmes her. now i know more about her tragic story i have to agree with Annie perhaps it is time she was cleared

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2008, 08:17:32 AM »
now i learn more about her my opion is ever changing. the first i read about her was the saga on the RUS and i forget which book it was but it basically balmes her.

Yes, you probably read that in FOTR. Since then we had a long discussion about Bux's alleged "betrayal" and demonstrated that FOTR was wrong. You may want to do a search of old threads, it's in there somewhere...

Offline Annie

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2008, 10:29:06 AM »
now i learn more about her my opion is ever changing. the first i read about her was the saga on the RUS and i forget which book it was but it basically balmes her.

Yes, you probably read that in FOTR. Since then we had a long discussion about Bux's alleged "betrayal" and demonstrated that FOTR was wrong. You may want to do a search of old threads, it's in there somewhere...


The whole idea of it even happening on the Rus is ridiculous, since at that time nobody knew what was going to happen to try to get away! If she had wanted to leave the family and go home she could have just left from Tobolsk and not even gotten on the Rus! And as I've said before she was not granted any freedom or special favors. Also the timeline is wrong. Boy that Rus trip sure has a lot added to it that wasn't really there, like the alleged 'abuse' which has also been proven wrong since it wasn't what the referenced source, Volkov, said at all. (There is a thread on that too) It's also ridiculous she told about the jewels, because the Bolsheviks didn't know and were surprised when the bullets bounced off of them. If they knew about them they'd have confiscated them immediately. Sometimes there are theories that turn out not to be accurate.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 10:30:49 AM by Annie »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: The Remains Identified as Alexei and Maria. Story Closed.
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2008, 10:32:45 AM »
The whole idea of it even happening on the Rus is ridiculous, since at that time nobody knew what was going to happen to try to get away! If she had wanted to leave the family and go home she could have just left from Tobolsk and not even gotten on the Rus!

Perhaps she already hatched her devious plan to rip off the IF, which is why she had to go on the Rus with them...  Kidding.