Author Topic: Corps Des Pages  (Read 44070 times)

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Offline Michael HR

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2008, 01:11:34 AM »
What a wonderful post, many thanks for the information and what a mind of detail you have. Will also try to track down a copy of this book as well. I'm glad they got out of Russia and lived in Paris and had some peace in later years. How difficult it must have been to become a taxi driver after that background but to leave ones family behind must be heart breaking. It does sort of bring the revolution to life when you hear personal stories like these of real people with real lives. From the splendor of the 1896 ball to the streets of Paris, phew.

Perhaps Russia will one day bring the Corps back to life as a school for officers it seems to have been wonderful, rather like Sandhurst in the UK.

Will be looking in little second hand book shops from now on, ebay etc.

Michael
Remembering the Imperial Corps Des Pages - The Spirit of Imperial Russia


Offline Mari

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2008, 03:38:58 AM »
Very interesting discussion! Personal Stories bring this Era to life for me.

Offline ML Thomas

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 10:06:25 AM »
My Grandfather, Major General Prince Tongtikayou Tongyai (a/k/a, Thongyai) of Siam graduated from the Corps des Pages in the class of 1906.  Prince Tongtikayou's class ring was made of gold surrounded by iron made from the the Russian Artillary used at Balaklava with inscription of  1st of 40.  He had been given a choice of service and he chose The Horse Guards. 
Grandfather along with his cousin Prince Chakrabongse, had married Russian Ladies before returning to Siam. My Grandmother, Laudmila Barsokoff was the daughter of Sergay Ivanovich Barsoukoff a Director of the Ministry of Fine Arts.


Another question on the Forum is about the Author, Marvin Lyons. I had contact with him approximately five years ago. Many families had sent him items for the Trust Museum he was establishing for the Corps des Pages.  His wife had passed away just before my call and he was devastated. That was my last contact with Marvin Lyons, a fine gentleman.
Best regards,
ML Thomas

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2008, 01:21:00 PM »
Sorry for the delay. Here is the Corps de Pages plate we have, its about 8" in diameter, and sadly a bit worn:


Offline Michael HR

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2008, 12:40:15 AM »
Dear FA,

Many thanks for the picture. Where on earth did you get the plate in the first place? It's quite a gem

Michael
Remembering the Imperial Corps Des Pages - The Spirit of Imperial Russia


Offline Daniel Briere

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2008, 10:50:10 PM »
Hi Michael,

As promised here are some photos I took in museums last year.

A full-dress tunic of a Page from the lower classes is on permanent display in the Imperial Russian Army Room at the Brussels Army Museum. The gold braid, specific to the Pages, can be seen clearly.

 



A Court dress tunic and helmet of a Kamer-Page is part of small display of Imperial Russian Army uniforms in the WWI section of the Paris Army Museum (at the Invalides).





Here’s a modern colour drawing showing a Kamer-Page in Court Dress bearing the last flag the Corps received in for its jubilee in 1902.



I’ll get back to the Crichton family chronicle ASAP.
Daniel Briere

Offline Douglas

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2008, 12:32:38 PM »
Daniel:

Beautiful uniforms...I especially like the top one.  I used to have a Civil War coat that was like that.  I suppose military uniforms are constructed along common lines.

I just hope they didn't have to wear it on a hot day.   I wonder, did they have a summer uniform of lighter materials?

Douglas.............los  angeles

Offline koloagirl

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2008, 05:45:56 PM »

Aloha all!

I know I am a day late and a dollar short here (sorry!) -- but I thought I would respond to the query about author Marvin Lyons.

I just had quite a discussion about him this morning - one of the women in my exercise class is a very good friend of his it turns out (she heard I was a Romanov buff) - and apparently he is definitely alive and well.

He sounds like a hugely interesting gentleman and incredibly knowledgeable about the Romanovs and the Corps Des Pages - I was amazed to hear all about him and now I am going to scout out his books!

Janet R.
Janet R.

Offline Nicolay

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2009, 05:33:17 PM »
This is interesting!

How did one get appointed to Chief R/C Priest at this establishment?
approx. Date 1865

Thank you for your help!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 05:37:20 PM by Nicolay »

Offline Nicolay

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2009, 11:27:31 PM »
This is a bad Translation but it'll do!

He was oldest/head Priest of this Chapel!
Interesting that the Leuchtenbergs were buried there ore in an extension of this chapel!

http://www.encspb.ru/ru/article.php?kod=2804677891

St. JOHN'S Catholic church JERUSALEM at Pazhesky Its Imperial Majesty the case (the Maltese chapel) Католическая церковь св. ИОАННА ИЕРУСАЛИМСКОГО при Пажеском Его Императорского Величества корпусе (Мальтийская капелла)
[Церковь св. Иоанна Крестителя] [Интерьер церкви св. Иоанна Крестителя]
When Pavel I became in 1799 great master of the Maltese award of St. John Ierusalimskogo, арх. J. Кваренги, the knight of this award, would build for the colleagues in 1798–1800 chapel at. A palace of chancellor M.I.Vorontsova where has taken places medal капитул. The chapel adjoined a southern facade of the main building of a palace. Когда Павел I стал в 1799 великим магистром Мальтийского ордена св. Иоанна Иерусалимского, арх. Дж. Кваренги, сам рыцарь этого ордена, выстроил для своих собратьев в 1798–1800 капеллу при б. дворце канцлера М. И. Воронцова, где разместился орденский капитул. Капелла примыкала к южному фасаду главного здания дворца.
According to the French abbey Zhorzhelja who has visited a chapel soon after its consecration, interiors „amaze with singularity, unexpectedness and together beauty, picturesqueness, riches and простотою“. In registration the architect used the Corinthian columns dark blue стюка, a magnificent moulding and a decorative list. Consecration of containing 1000 persons of a temple for the sake of John Krestitelja was made on June, 17th by 1800 metropolitan Stanislav Bogush-Sestrentsevich, командор the Big cross of an award of St. John. After Pavel's death the Maltese knights living in Petersburg, used a temple to 1817 then the award had to leave Russia. По словам французского аббата Жоржеля, побывавшего в капелле вскоре после ее освящения, интерьеры „поражают необычностью, неожиданностью и вместе красотой, живописностью, богатством и простотою“. В оформлении зодчий использовал коринфские колонны синего стюка, пышную лепку и декоративную роспись. Освящение вмещавшего 1000 человек храма во имя Иоанна Крестителя совершил 17 июня 1800 митрополит Станислав Богуш-Сестренцевич, командор Большого креста ордена св. Иоанна. После смерти Павла мальтийские рыцари, жившие в Петербурге, пользовались храмом до 1817, после чего ордену пришлось покинуть Россию.
In 1810 property of an award it has been transferred in treasury, and the Pazhesky case has moved to a building. The Maltese church has passed under care of the ober-chamberlain гр. Ю. P.Litty also became house not only for pupils-Catholics of the case, but, first of all, for foreign diplomats. Divine services in it were conducted in Latin and French languages; only in the end of a XIX-th century began to serve and in Russian. В 1810 имущество ордена было передано в казну, и в здание переехал Пажеский корпус. Мальтийская церковь перешла под попечение обер-камергера гр. Ю. П. Литты и стала домовой не только для воспитанников-католиков корпуса, но, прежде всего, для иностранных дипломатов. Богослужения в ней велись на латинском и французском языках; только в конце XIX века стали служить и на русском.
The chapel which had choruses, in 1835 has been restored. In 1853 to it have attached a chapel with a marble tomb of duke Maksimiliana Lejhtenbergsky, son-in-law Nikolay I where have transferred subjects from the house church of the duke existing with 1840 in manor Sergeevka near Peterhof. A tomb and its sculptural ornaments has made акад. A.I.Terebenev. The window in a chapel was decorated with a stained-glass window of the Italian work with the image свв. Максимилиана and Evgenies, and an altar in 1861 – the big image belonging to a brush of A.I.Sharlemanja. Капелла, имевшая хоры, была в 1835 отреставрирована. В 1853 к ней пристроили часовню с мраморной гробницей герцога Максимилиана Лейхтенбергского, зятя Николая I, куда перенесли предметы из домовой церкви герцога, существовавшей с 1840 в усадьбе Сергеевка под Петергофом. Гробницу и ее скульптурные украшения сделал акад. А. И. Теребенев. Окно в часовне украсил витраж итальянской работы с изображением свв. Максимилиана и Евгении, а алтарь в 1861 – большой образ, принадлежащий кисти А. И. Шарлеманя.
In 1890 арх. A.D.Fialkovsky has made interior major repairs. In 1909 the new body of firm Valker which have replaced former, which here has been established occurred from the Taurian palace. В 1890 арх. А. Д. Фиалковский произвел капитальный ремонт интерьера. В 1909 здесь был установлен новый орган фирмы Валкер, заменивший прежний, который происходил из Таврического дворца.
From remarkable subjects in a temple were stored: напрестольный a gilt cross with St. hallows, copes of a crimson velvet – Pavel I gift and a portrait гр. Ю. P.Litty. The marble board strengthened on a wall reminded Of establishment of the Maltese award. Из примечательных предметов в храме хранились: напрестольный золоченый крест со св. мощами, ризы малинового бархата – подарок Павла I и портрет гр. Ю. П. Литты. Об учреждении мальтийского ордена напоминала мраморная доска, укрепленная на стене.
Before revolution by the prior Sigizmund Lozinsky, the professor of Catholic Spiritual academy served an island. After revolt эсеров the Vorontsovsky palace was which centre, the church 1918 has been closed on June, 16th simultaneously with orthodox (the church of CHRISTMAS of JOHN of the FORERUNNER at Pazhesky Its Majesty the case see). Перед революцией настоятелем служил о. Сигизмунд Лозинский, профессор католической Духовной академии. После восстания эсеров, центром которого был Воронцовский дворец, церковь была 16 июня 1918 закрыта одновременно с православной (см. церковь РОЖДЕСТВА ИОАННА ПРЕДТЕЧИ при Пажеском Его Величества корпусе).
The furniture is taken out from a chapel in 1930 when the premise was occupied already with military club; the body is transferred Small opera theatre. With 1958 in the former chapel the assembly hall of Suvorovsky school took places. On October, 19th 1998 in it, after restoration, the Museum of history of military schools of Russia is opened.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 11:31:30 PM by Nicolay »

Offline Nicolay

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2009, 11:26:03 PM »
I found the answer!
They were elected/appointed by the tsar!
http://www.orderstjohn.org/osj/conventa.htm

Zitat:
Quote
"The Conventional Chaplains shall be appointed by the Maltese
Grandmaster (The Tsar was the Grandmaster since Paul the First of Russia)
and
and will be sent to give service from Malta"???

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2010, 06:00:41 PM »
Ah, so the highest classes of the Corps des Pages were the Chamber-Pages I thought were missing from the Court Ranks of the Table of Ranks!

Offline Mike

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2010, 02:49:43 AM »
Chamber Page was not a rank, but a temporary position or appointment.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2010, 01:21:14 PM »
Chamber Page was not a rank, but a temporary position or appointment.

Thanks for that clarification, Mike. But they fit well into the hierarchy, being junior to the Kammer-Junkers who again were junior to the Chamberlains.

Offline Nicolay

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Re: Corps Des Pages
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2011, 06:25:51 AM »
Just got these Pictures, from St. Petersburg,
maybe some of you don't have them yet,,...............
and Just maybe somebody could help me identify the Order and the insignia on the Collar!

THANK YOU!
 :)



By frankmartinoff at 2011-10-08


By frankmartinoff at 2011-12-31


By frankmartinoff at 2011-10-08


By FrankMartinoff at 2011-12-27



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Maybe somebody can translate their Names and function!


[IMG=http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6631/1cdep2.th.jpg]http://[/img]

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FOR MIKE, a SECOND VERSION OF HIS AVATAR!





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MAYBE even a THIRD VERSION



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« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 06:41:26 AM by Nicolay »