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Locked Topic Topic: Kaiser Wilhelm II  (Read 105400 times)
Reply #150
« on: February 08, 2005, 01:32:36 PM »
grandduchessella Offline
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Speech by British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, June 1917

It is a satisfaction for Britain in these terrible times that no share of the responsibility for these events rests on her.

She is not the Jonah in this storm.  The part taken by our country in this conflict, in its origin, and in its conduct, has been as honourable and chivalrous as any part ever taken in any country in any operation.

We might imagine from declarations which were made by the Germans, aye! and even by a few people in this country, who are constantly referring to our German comrades, that this terrible war was wantonly and wickedly provoked by England - never Scotland - never Wales - and never Ireland.

Wantonly provoked by England to increase her possessions, and to destroy the influence, the power, and the prosperity of a dangerous rival.

There never was a more foolish travesty of the actual facts.  It happened three years ago, or less, but there have been so many bewildering events crowded into those intervening years that some people might have forgotten, perhaps, some of the essential facts, and it is essential that we should now and again restate them, not merely to refute the calumniators of our native land, but in order to sustain the hearts of her people by the unswerving conviction that no part of the guilt of this terrible bloodshed rests on the conscience of their native land.

What are the main facts?  There were six countries which entered the war at the beginning.  Britain was last, and not the first.

Before she entered the war Britain made every effort to avoid it; begged, supplicated, and entreated that there should be no conflict.

I was a member of the Cabinet at the time, and I remember the earnest endeavours we made to persuade Germany and Austria not to precipitate Europe into this welter of blood.  We begged them to summon a European conference to consider.

Had that conference met arguments against provoking such a catastrophe were so overwhelming that there would never have been a war.  Germany knew that, so she rejected the conference, although Austria was prepared to accept it.  She suddenly declared war, and yet we are the people who wantonly provoked this war, in order to attack Germany.

We begged Germany not to attack Belgium, and produced a treaty, signed by the King of Prussia, as well as the King of England, pledging himself to protect Belgium against an invader, and we said, "If you invade Belgium we shall have no alternative but to defend it."

The enemy invaded Belgium, and now they say, "Why, forsooth, you, England, provoked this war."

It is not quite the story of the wolf and the lamb.  I will tell you why - because Germany expected to find a lamb and found a lion.

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Reply #151
« on: February 08, 2005, 01:38:00 PM »
grandduchessella Offline
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The 'Blank Cheque'

Confidential - For Your Excellency's personal information and guidance

Berlin
6 July 1914

The Austro-Hungarian Ambassador yesterday delivered to the Emperor a confidential personal letter from the Emperor Francis Joseph, which depicts the present situation from the Austro-Hungarian point of view, and describes the measures which Vienna has in view.  A copy is now being forwarded to Your Excellency.

I replied to Count Szagyeny today on behalf of His Majesty that His Majesty sends his thanks to the Emperor Francis Joseph for his letter and would soon answer it personally.

In the meantime His Majesty desires to say that he is not blind to the danger which threatens Austria-Hungary and thus the Triple Alliance as a result of the Russian and Serbian Pan-Slavic agitation.

Even though His Majesty is known to feel no unqualified confidence in Bulgaria and her ruler, and naturally inclines more to ward our old ally Rumania and her Hohenzollern prince, yet he quite understands that the Emperor Francis Joseph, in view of the attitude of Rumania and of the danger of a new Balkan alliance aimed directly at the Danube Monarchy, is anxious to bring about an understanding between Bulgaria and the Triple alliance.

[...]

His Majesty will, further more, make an effort at Bucharest, according to the wishes of the Emperor Francis Joseph, to influence King Carol to the fulfilment  of the duties of his alliance, to the renunciation of Serbia, and to the suppression of the Rumanian agitations directed against Austria-Hungary.

Finally, as far as concerns Serbia, His Majesty, of course, cannot interfere in the dispute now going on between Austria-Hungary and that country, as it is a matter not within his competence.

The Emperor Francis Joseph may, however, rest assured that His Majesty will faithfully stand by Austria-Hungary, as is required by the obligations of his alliance and of his ancient friendship.

Bethmann-Hollweg

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Reply #152
« on: February 08, 2005, 01:40:10 PM »
grandduchessella Offline
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Of most interest however are the Kaiser's annotated notes upon the telegrams.  These are indicated in the text in italics.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Telegrams from Baron Tschirschky to Kaiser Wilhelm II, 30 June-14 July 1914

30 June 1914

Count Berchtold told me to-day there was every indication that the threads of the conspiracy of which the Archduke was the victim centre at Belgrade.  The affair was so cleverly designed that very young persons had been expressly selected to execute the crime, since they could not be sentenced to more than secondary penalties.  (I certainly hope this is not the case.)  The Minister spoke with intense bitterness of the Serbian plots.

I have heard even people of moderation and responsible judgment express a desire to settle once for all Austria's account with the Serbs.  (Now or never!)  They think one should submit to the Serbs a series of conditions, and in case they do not accept them, should take vigorous measures.

I am seizing every opportunity to dissuade people quietly but seriously from precipitate measures.  (Who has authorised that?  Utterly stupid!, It's none of his business!  It is for Austria alone to decide what she considers it necessary to do.  If things go wrong later, they will say: Germany opposed!  Let Tschirschky do me the favour to drop such foolishness.  The Serbs must be settled with as soon as possible.  That is self-evident.  It is something that requires no argument.)

First of all, it is important for people to know precisely what they wish.  Up to the present, I have heard nothing but very vague and confused impressions.  It would be well to weigh carefully the possible results of any act, and to bear in mind that Austria-Hungary is not the only country in the world; that she must show due consideration for her allies and keep in view the European situation as a whole; especially that she should not lose sight of Italy's and Rumania's attitude in matters concerning Serbia.

10 July 1914

Berchtold is complaining of Count Tisza's attitude, which makes it difficult to proceed vigorously against Serbia.  Tisza pretends that they should act "like gentlemen."  (With assassins! After all that has happened! Stupidity!)

14 July 1914

During the discussion to-day it was unanimously decided that it was advisable to wait until Poincare had left Russia before taking up matters with Belgrade.  (Too bad!)  For it is important, so far as is possible, to prevent the relations of those two Powers from being influenced, and perhaps determined, at St. Petersburg during the exhilaration of champagne dinners and demonstrations of fraternity by Poincare, Iswolsky, and the Grand Dukes.  It would be better to have the toast over before the Ultimatum is sent.  We shall be able to go ahead on July 25.

14 July 1914 (later)

Count Tisza called on me to-day after seeing Count Berchtold.  He told me that he was a man who always counselled prudence, but that every day strengthened his opinion that the Monarchy must make up its mind to act energetically (Certainly!) in order to prove its vigour and to end once for all the deplorable situation on its southeastern border.

The language of the Serbian press and of Serbian diplomats is insupportably arrogant.  Tisza told me: "It has been disagreeable for me to advise war; but I am now fully convinced that it is necessary, and I shall exert myself to the utmost in behalf of the Monarchy."

The final text of the note to be delivered to Serbia is not yet drafted.  It will be ready Sunday (July 19).  It has been decided that it will be better to wait until Poincare leaves St. Petersburg, that is, until July 25, before delivering it to Serbia.  (What a pity!)

But as soon as the period allowed Serbia to reply has elapsed, or in case she does not accept all the conditions without reservations, mobilization will be ordered.  The note has been drafted in such a way that it will be practically impossible for Serbia to accept it. (William II underlined this sentence twice.)

[Tschirschky then explained that Berchtold was considering what demands had best be put forward to make Serbia's acceptance wholly impossible. To this the Kaiser noted]

Evacuate the Sandjak (note: certain Turkish territory previously ceded by Austria to Serbia) then the row will begin.  Austria must without fail get it back so as to stop the unification of Serbia and Montenegro and the Serbs reaching the sea.

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Reply #153
« on: February 08, 2005, 01:47:14 PM »
grandduchessella Offline
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Some of the 'Willy' 'Nicky' telegrams

Tsar to Kaiser 29 July 1914, 1 a.m.
Peter's Court Palais, 29 July 1914
Sa Majesté l'Empereur
Neues Palais
Am glad you are back. In this serious moment, I appeal to you to help me. An ignoble war has been declared to a weak country. The indignation in Russia shared fully by me is enormous. I foresee that very soon I shall be overwhelmed by the pressure forced upon me and be forced to take extreme measures which will lead to war. To try and avoid such a calamity as a European war I beg you in the name of our old friendship to do what you can to stop your allies from going too far.

Kaiser to Tsar
29 July 1914, 1.45 a.m. (this and the previous telegraph crossed)
28 July 1914
It is with the gravest concern that I hear of the impression which the action of Austria against Serbia is creating in your country. The unscrupulous agitation that has been going on in Serbia for years has resulted in the outrageous crime, to which Archduke Francis Ferdinand fell a victim. The spirit that led Serbians to murder their own king and his wife still dominates the country. You will doubtless agree with me that we both, you and me, have a common interest as well as all Sovereigns to insist that all the persons morally responsible for the dastardly murder should receive their deserved punishment. In this case politics plays no part at all. On the other hand, I fully understand how difficult it is for you and your Government to face the drift of your public opinion. Therefore, with regard to the hearty and tender friendship which binds us both from long ago with firm ties, I am exerting my utmost influence to induce the Austrians to deal straightly to arrive to a satisfactory understanding with you. I confidently hope that you will help me in my efforts to smooth over difficulties that may still arise.
Your very sincere and devoted friend and cousin
Willy

Kaiser to Tsar 29 July 1914, 6.30 p.m.
Berlin, 29 July 1914
I received your telegram and share your wish that peace should be maintained. But as I told you in my first telegram, I cannot consider Austria's action against Servia an "ignoble" war. Austria knows by experience that Servian promises ono paper are wholly unreliable. I understand its action must be judged as trending to get full guarantee that the Servian promises shall become real facts. This my reasoning is borne out by the statement of the Austrian cabinet that Austria does not want to make any territorial conquests at the expense of Servia. I therefore suggest that it would be quite possible for Russia to remain a spectator of the austro-servian conflict without involving Europe in the most horrible war she ever witnessed. I think a direct understanding between your Government and Vienna possible and desirable, and as I already telegraphed to you, my Government is continuing its exercises to promote it . Of course military measures on the part of Russia would be looked upon by Austria as a calamity we both wish to avoid and jeopardize my position as mediator which I readily accepted on your appeal to my friendship and my help.
Willy

Tsar to Kaiser 29 July 1914, 8.20 p.m.
Peter's Court Palace, 29 July 1914
Thanks for your telegram conciliatory and friendly. Whereas official message presented today by your ambassador to my minister was conveyed in a very different tone. Beg you to explain this divergency! It would be right to give over the Austro-servian problem to the Hague conference. Trust in your wisdom and friendship.
Your loving Nicky

Tsar to Kaiser 30 July 1914, 1.20 a.m.
Peter's Court Palais, 30 July 1914
Thank you heartily for your quick answer. Am sending Tatischev this evening with instructions. The military measures which have now come into force were decided five days ago for reasons of defence on account of Austria's preparations. I hope from all my heart that these measures won't in any way interfere with your part as mediator which I greatly value. We need your strong pressure on Austria to come to an understanding with us.
Nicky

Kaiser to Tsar 30 July 1914, 1.20 a.m.
Berlin, 30. July 1914
Best thanks for telegram. It is quite out of the question that my ambassadors language could have been in contradiction with the tenor of my telegram. Count Pourtalès was instructed to draw the attention of your government to the danger & grave consequences involved by a mobilisation; I said the same in my telegram to you. Austria has only mobilised against Servia & only a part of her army. If, as it is now the case, according to the communication by you & your Government, Russia mobilises against Austria, my rôle as mediator you kindly intrusted me with, & which I accepted at you[r] express prayer, will be endangered if not ruined. The whole weight of the decision lies solely on you[r] shoulders now, who have to bear the responsibility for Peace or War.
Willy

Kaiser to Tsar 31 July 1914 Berlin, 31. July 1914
On your appeal to my friendship and your call for assistance began to mediate between your and the austro-hungarian Government. While this action was proceeding your troops were mobilised against Austro-Hungary, my ally. thereby, as I have already pointed out to you, my mediation has been made almost illusory. I have nevertheless continued my action. I now receive authentic news of serious preparations for war on my Eastern frontier. Responsibility for the safety of my empire forces preventive measures of defence upon me. In my endeavours to maintain the peace of the world I have gone to the utmost limit possible. The responsibility for the disaster which is now threatening the whole civilized world will not be laid at my door. In this moment it still lies in your power to avert it. Nobody is threatening the honour or power of Russia who can well afford to await the result of my mediation. My friendship for you and your empire, transmitted to me by my grandfather on his deathbed has always been sacred to me and I have honestly often backed up Russia when she was in serious trouble especially in her last war.The peace of Europe may still be maintained by you, if Russia will agree to stop the milit. measures which must threaten Germany and Austro-Hungary.
Willy

Tsar to Kaiser
31 July 1914 (this and the previous telegram crossed)
Petersburg, Palace, 31 July 1914
Sa Majesté l'Empereur, Neues Palais
I thank you heartily for your mediation which begins to give one hope that all may yet end peacefully. It is technically impossible to stop our military preparations which were obligatory owing to Austria's mobilisation. We are far from wishing war. As long as the negotiations with Austria on Servia's account are taking place my troops shall not make any provocative action. I give you my solemn word for this. I put all my trust in Gods mercy and hope in your successful mediation in Vienna for the welfare of our countries and for the peace of Europe.
Your affectionate
Nicky

Tsar to Kaiser 1 August 1914
Peter's Court, Palace, 1 August 1914
Sa Majesté l'Empereur
Berlin
I received your telegram. Understand you are obliged to mobilise but wish to have the same guarantee from you as I gave you, that these measures do not mean war and that we shall continue negotiating for the benefit of our countries and universal peace deal to all our hearts. Our long proved friendship must succeed, with God's help, in avoiding bloodshed. Anxiously, full of confidence await your answer.
Nicky

Kaiser to Tsar 1 August, 1914
Berlin, 1 August 1914
Thanks for your telegram. I yesterday pointed out to your government the way by which alone war may be avoided. Although I requested an answer for noon today, no telegram from my ambassador conveying an answer from your Government has reached me as yet. I therefore have been obliged to mobilise my army.
Immediate affirmative clear and unmistakable answer from your government is the only way to avoid endless misery. Until I have received this answer alas, I am unable to discuss the subject of your telegram. As a matter of fact I must request you to immediatly [sic] order your troops on no account to commit the slightest act of trespassing over our frontiers.
Willy

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Reply #154
« on: February 08, 2005, 01:47:31 PM »
bluetoria
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Oh wow! That's wonderful grandduchessella Smiley

(Why do the most interesting things always appear just when it's time to go somewhere else!)
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Reply #155
« on: February 08, 2005, 01:49:30 PM »
grandduchessella Offline
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This is the kind of thing that led to perceptions of the 'bloodthirsty Huns'

Officially published by the French government in 1919 the letter extract clearly implied that the Kaiser advocated and approved of use of terror by German troops who passed through northern France.

The authenticity of the letter has not however been proven.

Kaiser Wilhelm II to Emperor Franz-Josef I on the Subject of German Rule in Northern France, 1914

My soul is torn asunder, but everything must be put to fire and blood.  The throats of men and women, children and the aged must be cut and not a tree nor a house left standing.With such methods of terror, which alone can strike so degenerate a people as the French, the war will finish before two months, while if I use humanitarian methods it may be prolonged for years.
Despite all my repugnance I have had to choose the first system.

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Reply #156
« on: February 08, 2005, 03:53:50 PM »
bluetoria
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Oh!! There is so much in all of that - and so much that is contradictory! At first it seemed Wilhelm was coming out in a particularly good light - his (like Nicky's0 decision to abdicate for the good of his people& avoid further bloodshed. This for a man of HIS character must have been incredibly humbling & difficult to swallow. I admire him for it.
But he comes out in a much worse light in his comments/asides to the telegrams at the beginning of the war. Perhaps he was double-dealing then...but I fell for his expressions of innocence, until you see those notes??
I'm afraid (regardless of my own nationality & natural patriotism) I think Lloyd George is absoluetly right - and Lloyd George is not a man I admire for many things. But it was ever thus (IMO) ENGLAND does take the blame never 'Britain' (Perhaps because of English arrogance in the past?? Who knows? But we are greatly criticized for our history & much of the goodwe have done is overlooked). At the same time the British/English were 'spoiling for a fight' as strongly as anyone else in Europe...In the years immediately prior to the war it seems that the countries were all like the boys you see strutting about outside pubs, goading each other & then someone strikes first - it doesn't really matter who it was; they were all waiting for it to happen, then seem shocked at the results.
The letter at the end, you say, is not of proven authenticity?  Perhaps, in one of his 'high oratory' moods Willy might have written it - perhaps not??
Is there similar propaganda in Germany about the Allies?

Thank you so much for posting all of this, grandduchessella (did your fingers drop off afterwards?)...it's all something you really need to read over again & again, isn't it? Thank you!

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Reply #157
« on: February 08, 2005, 04:48:04 PM »
bluetoria
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Quote
Count Detlef von Moltke on Kaiser Wilhelm II's Abdication, 29 October-11 November 1918

The hypocritical Wilson had now brought it to pass among his Allies, external and internal to Germany that the Emperor as Monarch, that is as Civil Governor, had but little authority.  In the new parliamentary government sat as the Fata Morgana of the new system Erzberger and Scheidemann, the plague and bane of Germany.



Since WWII was really a direct result of WWI & the extreme demands of Versailles, could this have been
avoided?
I am being quite tentative here because I do not know enough about it & because I am not American. It seemed to me that Wilson's plan (& involvement?) was excessive in its demands. The USA not being a monarchy, saw monarchies as tyrannical? (I'm ASKING this, not stating it - in all good will & solely with a view to understanding Smiley) And the removal of the Kaiser was one of Wilson's demands. Was this really just? (Perhaps he would not have survived anyway?)
Can someone please explain this more clearly....I hope I'm not offending any Americans by saying it just seems like they were too heavy handed. Perhaps Britain was too? I just don't know :-/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by bluetoria » Logged
Reply #158
« on: February 08, 2005, 05:36:37 PM »
bluetoria
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I mean (after reading again & again through these fascinating postings) could the monarchy in Germany have survived? (Perhaps not - thinking of Henry & Irene fleeing from Kiel? - Perhaps the need for a change was too strong)
If it had, the whole future of the world would have been different - perhaps there would have been real peace because there would have been no Hitler, no holocaust etc. etc.
So much to think about!! And it's SO late at night! And what difference does it make now anyway - except that perhaps if we CAN understand these things, it can help us to avoid future wars...Oh! It's so fascinating but so baffling :-/
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Reply #159
« on: February 08, 2005, 05:51:43 PM »
Robert_Hall Offline
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Who is to know ?   Mussolinni's [sp?] long rule was under a monarchy for the most part. As was the warlords in Japan.  Could the Germans have fared any better ?
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Reply #160
« on: February 08, 2005, 06:20:51 PM »
grandduchessella Offline
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bluetoria--as an American no offense. I can't stand Wilson. I'm a Teddy Roosevelt gal and those two hated each other. I think he bears a lot of blame since he was a driving force behind a lot of the harsh demands on Germany during the treaty negotiations (as was France--good going once again!). Wilson was certainly NO fan of monarchies and I think was one of the first heads of state to telegraph congrats upon the abdication of the Tsar.

And my fingers are fine--I was a cheater. I cut and pasted this time.  Wink  Usually I do work my little fingers to the bone though in service to the forum.  Smiley
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Reply #161
« on: February 09, 2005, 03:48:44 AM »
bluetoria
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Quote

 Usually I do work my little fingers to the bone though in service to the forum.  Smiley


And we are very grateful it Smiley
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Reply #162
« on: February 09, 2005, 09:18:35 AM »
bluetoria
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Quote
Who is to know ?   Mussolinni's [sp?] long rule was under a monarchy for the most part. As was the warlords in Japan.  Could the Germans have fared any better ?


Yes, I suppose that is true. It isn't specifically monarchies I'm thinking of, it's when governments are overthrown in revolution...it always seems to get worse. Perhaps it's because, out of the chaos, the most aggressive take control & when the people are looking for stability they adhere to the strongest person regardless of his/her views. In this way, it seems, greater tyrants flourish.  
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Reply #163
« on: February 09, 2005, 08:52:03 PM »
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Since the notes of William that speak about such attrocities-to-come cannot be verified, it seems fair to assume that he was not that harsh. What can be validated is his somewhat desperate attempts to avoid the conflict.

The speech by the English prime minister is typical of all leaders who see the going getting rough. It is nearly impossible to find any war in which one or more of the participants are totally "innocent". Speaking as the leader in charge of 25% of the world's population and land mass--most of which was not English--at the time and suggesting England was meak and mild is laughable. "Chivalrous"? How about Gallipoli?

I cannot find in "Dreadnought" the passages talking about the German ambassador in London doing the begging to avoid war. Do you know about it?
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Reply #164
« on: March 01, 2005, 07:00:33 AM »
bluetoria
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I was just reading an article about Lloyd George's hope to have Wilhelm brought to England for trial at the end of the war. He was trying to persuade the Futch to extradite him...in spite of opposition from George V & his advisors who thought that a public trial of another grandson of QV might lead to the toppling of the British throne. The Dutch refused the extradition anyway...but does anyone have any more details about this please?  Smiley
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