Kaiser Wilhelm II

It's very nice to see different opinions from what I'm used to...

Since highschool I've always felt suspicious that all the blames (of WWI) were on Germany's shoulders...especially on the Kaiser ones...

I think he was very patriotic indeed, but that's not a bad thing...there was lots of envy and vengeance on the written history...

I don't agree that Germany would have developed so greatly if he was not ruling...Yes it's a great country, but to me Wilhelm gave the Germans and the World an image of strength, among other things, which led to confidence...and then economic, cultural, etc, boom.

Well the world could be very different now...but Gavrilo Princip had a good shot  

I think some where  in his heart he blamed Vicky for his imprection, althouigh he did loved her a lot. Hense lies the contradictions of Wihelm's life. For example, Wilhelm loved QV, but he could never followed the footsteps of his saintly grandfather Albert, who was his mother, Vicky's idol.  

HerrKaiser, thank you very, very much for that wonderful post!! I've learned a lot!   I love this thread!

I think Wilhelm and Vicky had problems in part because of a common parent-child problem - same personality, different opinions. Both were passionate, opinionated, outspoken etc.

Not to mention suspision and politics. Willy twice ransacked the palace for his parent's papers is hardly just a child-parent tiff.  

Not to mention suspision and politics. Willy twice ransacked the palace for his parent's papers is hardly just a child-parent tiff.  

Yes, not a mere tiff, but not an uncommon activity among monarchs and heirs. No matter what side one would take between him and Vicky/Fritz, he became the emperor and as such did have a need to know what issues were out there by virtue of any one's doing...including his parents. Sad that any mistrust or differing point of views existed, but he was the boss and he would have been remiss had he not tried to get all his ducks in a row.

His problematic relationship with Vicky was very unfortunate, but the evidence is that in spite of severe hearache and painful times, they had a mother/son love going. Wilhelm tried in vain to build a groundswell of interest and support to have a celebration in Germany to honor Vicky's 100th  birthday. She was long gone by that time and he was in exile, but to me it showed a reverance that is often overlooked.

I think Willy had a grudging respect for Vicky and her talents. When Vicky built Friedrichof, Willy (once stayed) became so attached to the place came often, much to the delighted of his mother (who also dreaded his huge suite of hang-ons).  

Willy actually quite revered his mother, albeit in an odd way for a son to love his mother.

I think it may be in the John Rohl book (which I don't have) that at least one letter from him as a young man to his mother is quoted.  It is surprisingly adoring and almost...well, passionate in nature.  

I have no doubt, although he did not always treat his mother well, to say the least, he loved her dearly...always.  Their relationship was very complex.  In part, it may have been due to Vicky's powerful intellect which Willy in no way matched.  

Must think about getting the Rohl tome on Willy too...costs a pretty penny though...

Not to mention suspision and politics. Willy twice ransacked the palace for his parent's papers is hardly just a child-parent tiff.  

I've always felt the Kaiser is much maligned in history. However, the one thing I cannot get over is his treatment of his parents--especially during his father's illness and death. There were definitely deep psychological reasons for this (his deformity, his love-hate relationship with his mother, etc...) however it is a permanent blight on his character for me. He did absolutely nothing to stop the vilification of his mother's character despite his power and, in many examples, encouraged it. The lack of respect shown to his dying father also rankles--the published photo of him while his father was gravely ill inscribed 'I bide my time' for instance. Also, the pretty shabby funeral given to Fritz in comparison to the huge state funeral shown to Wilhem I.

I'm not surprised he wrote a forward to Vicky's letters--he tried furiously to prevent their publication (probably knowing he didn't come off well) and needed to save face somewhat.

Definitely a multi-faceted character with, to me anyway, a pretty equal number of good and bad traits.

I still think marriage to the lovely, cultured Ella would've been preferable to the sycophantic, 'everything you do is perfect' Dona. I can't see Ella fawning all over everything he said and did--too much strength of character. She perhaps could've served as the soothing influence that Irene was for Henry--whose relationship with his mother vastly improved after his marriage.

Kaiser Wilhelm II, that bad? No, not all at, I´d say.
Maybe he was "just" the greatest failure in history, like his uncle Edward VII. said... :-/

Yes, perhaps the worst of the worst in his life was his unbelieveably miserable treatment of his parents when Fritz was dying and his lack of controling the cruelty heaped on Vicky...when he could have done much. Those days in San Remo must have been beyond brutal for Vicky and I cannot imagine how critically ill Fritz ever made it back to Germany.

In addition to the list of true mental issues Wilhelm must have had as is pointed out by GDElla here, the only other aspect to grasp is that he was only in his 20s and a spoiled brat kid with the psychoses he had doesn't get much better until real maturity sets in later in life. While his preface to Vicky's letters was a safe-face act, I wonder if there was ever in his life the time he regretted his behavior and actions relative to his parents. There is not too much evidence of such, but his distress about the lack of interest in Vicky's 100th birthday anniversary gives some (albeit little) indication he was seeking penance.

I think all of that is true. Willy did blamed his parents for his deformity (especially Vicky). Also Vicky's hope that he would get over his illness and became perfect was pressure for Willy. On top of that, the influence of Empress Augusta, Duchess Luise (Willy's Aunt) and worst of all Bismark made it worse. When Bismark tried to solicit Vicky's help after his disgrace, she said " I cannot help you, since you have destroyed whatever influence I have with my son."

When Bismark tried to solicit Vicky's help after his disgrace, she said " I cannot help you, since you have destroyed whatever influence I have with my son."

Very sad bottom line to the Hohenzollern and German Empire's "place in the sun". Together, the geniuses of Bismarck, Fritz, Vicky, and the positive energies of Wilhelms I and II could have established a democratic-style, socially advanced European union/state preminent in global politics and economy and powerful enough to have avoided, at least the extent of, WWI (hence WWII). But separately, they were all essentially ineffectual.

My opinion is: yes, I agree that Wilhelm II. is that bad!
Some years before WW1 he offers to Franz Joseph their alliance. He wrote: "Our alliance shows to world when both kaiserdoms are together, Europe must obey!"
When Franz Ferdinand was murdered, Franz Joseph doesn´t want a war, but Wilhelm want it. I think that not Sarajevo assasination, but Wilhelm II. is a reason why war happened.
And do you know that when wehrmacht occupy Paris Wilhelm send to Hitler congratulatory telegram? In one newspaper item was Wilhelm called "Little Hitler", and they wrote, that Wilhelm was Hitler´s precursor.

thanks for your thoughts Marie, but it seems you may be misreading or misunderstanding the history of the times and the broader picture. In fact, it was Wilhelm who, almost singlehandedly, negotiated the Austrian/Serbian problem during the summer of 1914. Austria was intent on swift and cruel retaliaiton. Wilhelm knew this would sparK a continental outbreak. He worked tirelessly to qualm the situation and acheived the needed result, famously stating "...we have acheived a moral victory" in avoiding Austrian retaliation and potential war. Russia, nonetheless, and France mobilized their troops, stationing them on German borders causing Wilhelm to act defensively. His defense, unfortunately, was implemented badly and with the trespass of Belgium, it gave cause, flimsy as it was in the big picture, for declarations of war upon Germany.

the Kaiser's congratulatory note to Hitler in 1940 did happen. Remember, France had misrepresented the Armistice in 1918 and proceeded to deal in bad faith when the treaty of Versailles was forciby signed in 1919. Hence, Wilhelm's glee at France's speedy surrender and losing the war in 1940 is utterly and completely understandable. However, shortly after when Hitler's true character and anti Semitic, hateful, and insane agendas became ever so clear, Wilhelm openly distained Germany and insisted nothing related to Hitler or the nazis be represented at his funeral. How many world leaders have ever taken back what they said?

Yes...Willy had hopes that Hitler could rebuilt Germany into a country that Germans can be proud of. It happened but not the way he envisioned it. He recinded his support when the real picture was revealed to him. I think he was a misguided man that had been brought up to think that he is better than anybody (Augusta, Wilhelm I, Luise , Bismark are all to blame for this). Selfish and unfeeling towards others was another trait. As Queen Alexandra told his son George V at the break of WWI " I have always told you that he is a bad man, now maybe you will believe me."