Kaiser Wilhelm II

Had England not declared war and set the dominos falling out of control....who knows?

What was the alternative?  :-/ (asked in a most un-aggressive way!) What, in your opinion, should they have done?
(I guess I'm very much swayed in my view not by the English response, but by the courage of King Albert of the Belgians who, IMO, was the REAL hero of WWI - if such a thing could exists amid so needless a loss of life!)  

The alternative could have been renewed peace talks. As a comparative, the Iraq war commenced years after the so-called reason for war emerged, during which time the U.N. and others etc kept trying to work out a way to avoid armed conflict. Even when the U.S. invaded, many (most?) felt the years of peace effort had not been fully exhausted.

Well, WWI got going in a couple months! And, if you take the Belgian "invasion" as the trigger, it was only a matter of days! So, the reactions were knee-jerk. Talks could have and should have gotten serious and constructive. But, I think the belief was that 'we'll put the Kaiser in his place' and be done in short order. They failed to anticipate the explosion that would take place from the fuse that was lit.

Let me throw in several bites of information which most people, even avid historians of Germany, do not know about Kaiser Wilhelm II whom my family called "Bully Billie".

When the Krupps and Wilhlem II didn't have their heads togather preparing for a war,  there were many other decisions to be made by the Kaiser.

One of the more interesting is the fact that Wilhelm ordered a fact finding mission about all the Germans who had migrated into Russia.  He had records searched and thousands of pages were created dealing with this report about the German-Russians  living inside Russia.  This report  gave information about those who had migrated,  the families themselves living in Russia and a list of names of children.

Wilhelm II looked at these lists and saw how many thousands of Germans-Russians there were and desided he would court these people into joining his ranks as his troops marched into the areas of Bessarabia, Ukraine, Volga, Caucasus and Crimea.

Oddly enough, it is the same reports which, I as a genealogist use to trace families within Russia and their roots in Germany.

I remember when I first learned why these records were collected I thought,  well, it's one thing I have to thank Wilhelm II because without these records I wouldn't have any information I, now, have.

The German-Russians, however, didn't join the German forces but fought and died for Russia.  

As for most of the Germans in Iowa, Idaho, North and South Dakota, Montana, Illionis, Nebraska.... [mid west], they are not Germans from Germany, they are German-Russians from Russia.  The reason they continue to call themselves Germans is because they had not given up their lanuage, customs, culture and continued to marry within the German-Russian communities while in Russia for over 100 years.  They had not mixed with the general population of Russians.  However, they had taken high positions in govt. and especially in the military. And,  this was one of the reasons Alexander III took a huge step against the German-Russians becoming the dominate leaders in the military and sought Russians [not German] for high positions.  This forced many German-Russians to Russianize their name...  Or,  to start migr. here to the USA, which many of my relatives started to do because the mood of Russia was changing...

AGRBear

I am not a geneologist but I know the statistics on German migration to the U.S. during the 1800s and early 1900s. There is no data I have ever seen that indicates most "Germans" are really Russians. Interesting thought, but I have not seen any such history. The emmigration from specifically Germany is very well documented and the growth of population in the midwest, particularly, was ethnic German.  Naturalization papers had to include the country of origin and a sworn statement denying one's allegiance to their former country. There could be no mistake about this. And the massive midwest German population was origined from Germany with the main exit points of Hamburg, Bremerhaven, and Wilhelmshaven.

The twist of ethnic origin that is well documented is the so-called Pennsylvania "Dutch" who are actually Pennsylvania "Deutsch". The Germans were anglizied to dutch.

Agabear, you are referring to the Volga Germans who emmigrated into Russia during the Katherine and Peter periods, encouraged to go in order to jump-start the Russian industry and agriculural base. These ethnic Germans were horribly brutalized by STalin and were part of the mass ethnic cleanzing of Germans from eastern Europe 1944-1948.

To get this back on track with the thread, even if William had counted on some aid from Russian partisans (as Hitler did 20 years later) the triggering elements to the outbreak of war remain a series of relatively minor infractions that all powers failed to handle properly and peacefully.

Although this quote is from US pres. Teddy Roosevelt, it sort of sums up the mindset of the times: "No triumph of peace can equal the armed triumph of war". I suppose the very same mindset is in force now, it just was less subtle then ?

Incredible quote from a president who has such a good-guy image. This relates directly to the earlier points about revising the view of some history when new items get unearthed.

Fortunately, the Spanish American War (his war) did not escale into the size of WWI. The set up was no less invalid, however, and if Roosevelt's opinion of armed victory was as stated above, it is no wonder the other powers would have tended in that direction.

The alternative could have been renewed peace talks. As a comparative, the Iraq war commenced years after the so-called reason for war emerged, during which time the U.N. and others etc kept trying to work out a way to avoid armed conflict. Even when the U.S. invaded, many (most?) felt the years of peace effort had not been fully exhausted.

Well, WWI got going in a couple months! And, if you take the Belgian "invasion" as the trigger, it was only a matter of days! So, the reactions were knee-jerk. Talks could have and should have gotten serious and constructive. But, I think the belief was that 'we'll put the Kaiser in his place' and be done in short order. They failed to anticipate the explosion that would take place from the fuse that was lit.

I'm sure you're right but I think we're forgetting that in 1914 the idea of war was so different from our present understanding. Prior to WWI the people didn't KNOW how horrible war is - they saw it as remote etc. etc. It was WWI that, perhaps for the first time, brought the horror of war to ordinary people.
The idea of peace talks etc. (which to us seem so rational) would not have been considered. Then, (I think) people TRULY believed it was a question of honour - 'poor little Beglium' has been hurt & we must rescue her. PERHAPS that explains the euphoria when war broke out & the sense of it being a just war. Only with hindsight do we realize how wrong it all was...Perhaps it will be ever thus

Whoooooa gang.

You're talking about my family and the thousands of German-Russians who migr. from Russia.  

Of course,  I know about the Penn. Dutch.  One of  them was my ancestor.  Part of this family came to the USA and part went east and ended up in Russia.

Yes,  I know about the Volga Germans.

So,  please,  don't tell me that I can't prove that there was a huge wave of German-Russians who migr. to the mid-west of these United States.  And, of course,  I can prove about the Kaisers mission in using the Germans who had migr. to Russia.

And, yes, Kaiser Wilhelm did make plans for the war he and Krupp would use, they thought, to make Krupp's richer and the Kaiser a ruler of a lot more territory.

An excellent book is Krupp Works by Manchestor.

AGRBear

Yes, Blutoria, I agree to an extent. But, most Europeans did know how horrible war was. For most of the 19th century, Europe was riddled with war, and with the continent relatively small, the wars were often "in the backyards" of the populations. In fact, much emmigration was spawned by people escaping the constant call to war.

Nonetheless, 'pride goeth before the fall' as the passage goes. yes, the pride of all the powerful nations gripped them with false hopes of quick victories. I also have a theory that for 25 years, the industrial revolution was soooooo successful and growth in terms of economies, populations, standard of living, leasure time etc etc had skyrocketed so dramatically, that the leaders really felt nothing could get in any of their ways. They had a very unrealistic sense of immortality and strength.

Yes, Blutoria, I agree to an extent. But, most Europeans did know how horrible war was. For most of the 19th century, Europe was riddled with war, and with the continent relatively small, the wars were often "in the backyards" of the populations. In fact, much emmigration was spawned by people escaping the constant call to war.

Yes, I stand corrected. My vision was clouded by thinking primarily of Britain whose wars had been 'abroad' for the most part, for several centuries.
All the same - not only was the scale of it so unprecedented that no one could have had any idea how dreadful it would be, but also with the number of new weapons involved, people simply had no idea of the terrible injuries SO many would suffer. (Not that weapons before were much better - being on the receiving end of a halbard or lance can't have been much fun either.)

Just thinking about the "trench" war makes my stomach turn...


AGRBear

Some interesting letters:

Letter from Kaiser Wilhelm II to Crown Prince Wilhelm, 9 November 1918
My Dear Boy:
After the Court Chamberlain had informed me that he could no longer guarantee my safety at Main Headquarters, and that the troops also were no longer trustworthy, I resolved after a severe mental struggle to leave the army, which has collapsed, and go to Holland.I advise you to stick to your post until the conclusion of the armistice.In Berlin two Governments, under the leadership of Ebert and Liebknecht, are fighting against each other.I hope to see you again in happier times.
Your faithful and deeply affected father,
WILHELM

Kaiser Wilhelm II's Abdication Proclamation
I herewith renounce for all time claims to the throne of Prussia and to the German Imperial throne connected therewith. At the same time I release all officials of the German Empire and of Prussia, as well as all officers, non-commissioned officers and men of the navy and of the Prussian army, as well as the troops of the federated states of Germany, from the oath of fidelity which they tendered to me as their Emperor, King and Commander-in-Chief.I expect of them that until the re-establishment of order in the German Empire they shall render assistance to those in actual power in Germany, in protecting the German people from the threatening dangers of anarchy, famine, and foreign rule.

Proclaimed under our own hand and with the imperial seal attached.

Amerongen, 28 November, 1918
Signed
WILLIAM

Paul von Hindenburg on Kaiser Wilhelm II's Abdication, 20 March 1919
Public opinion has been recently discussing the question why the Kaiser went to Holland.  To obviate erroneous judgments, I should like to make the following brief observations.

When the Imperial Chancellor, Prince Max of Baden, announced the Kaiser's abdication on November 9th, without the Kaiser's previous declaration of assent, the German Army was not beaten, but its strength had dwindled and the enemy had fresh masses in readiness for a new attack.

The conclusion of the armistice was directly impending.  At this moment of the highest military tension revolution broke out in Germany, the insurgents seized the Rhine bridges, important arsenals, and traffic centres in the rear of the army, thereby endangering the supply of ammunition and provisions, while the supplies in the hands of the troops were only enough to last for a few days.

The troops on the lines of communication and the reserves disbanded themselves, and unfavourable reports arrived concerning the reliability of the field army proper.

In view of this state of affairs the peaceful return home of the Kaiser was no longer to be thought of and could only have been enforced at the head of loyal troops.  In that case the complete collapse of Germany was inevitable, and civil war would have been added to the fighting with the enemy without, who would doubtless have pressed on with all his energy.

The Kaiser could, moreover, have betaken himself to the fighting troops, in order to seek death at their head in a last attack; but the armistice, so keenly desired by the people, would thereby have been postponed, and the lives of many soldiers uselessly sacrificed.

Finally, the Kaiser might leave the country.  He chose this course in agreement with his advisers, after an extremely severe mental struggle, and solely in the hope that he could thereby best serve the Fatherland, save Germany further losses, distress, and misery, and restore to her peace and order.

It was not the Kaiser's fault that he was of this opinion.

Count Detlef von Moltke on Kaiser Wilhelm II's Abdication, 29 October-11 November 1918

I come now to the 29th of October, the day of the departure of the Emperor from Potsdam for Spa, the headquarters of the Army in the West.  The journey was resolved upon by the General Staff at midday.

The suddenness of it did not surprise us soldiers, accustomed as we were to quick movements.  It aroused, however, speculation on the part of the public and was commented on from different angles by the press, on the 30th, some of the more radical newspapers even hinting, in guarded language, at flight.

When we examine the reasons for the journey, we must not forget that the Emperor and King was not only Monarch but Commander-in-Chief of the Military Forces of the Empire.

We must, therefore, ask ourselves what remained of the Imperial powers after the change to parliamentary government in the first days of the month?  The answer is: almost nothing.

The hypocritical Wilson had now brought it to pass among his Allies, external and internal to Germany that the Emperor as Monarch, that is as Civil Governor, had but little authority.  In the new parliamentary government sat as the Fata Morgana of the new system Erzberger and Scheidemann, the plague and bane of Germany.

The Emperor had been obliged to surrender the power over war and peace to the Reichstag.  All the appointments of Ministers and of the higher military officials as well as all decisions in regard to military political affairs required the approval of the Cabinet of Ministers.

All the powers in these respects formerly exercised by the Emperor had been taken from him and nothing left to him but the powers of administration in detail.  This was the aspect of the Emperor's powers in the latter October days.  The American Professor had issued his commands and the German Michel had obeyed and fallen from power.

Can anyone then blame the Emperor that, having been deprived of all of his powers as Monarch, he betook himself as soldier to his brave, hard-pressed soldiers?  This question carries its own answer.

At 4 p.m., October 30th, we arrived in Spa.  Two days later, on November 1st, Dr. Drews, Minister of the Interior, presented himself to the Emperor for the purpose of requesting abdication.

The Emperor heard him through and then replied: "What, you as a Prussian officer, who have sworn your oath of loyalty to your King, you come before me with such a proposition! I will describe to you then the chaos you invite.  I and my house abdicate! Immediately all the German dynasties fall! The army is left without a leader! The front dissolves and the soldiers stream back across the Rhine.  The traitors throughout the country get together burning, plundering, murdering and the enemy assists in the nefarious work! I have no idea of abdicating! The King of Prussia dare not betray Germany, least of all in this hour of her greatest need.  I also have sworn my oath and I shall keep it!"

Has not everything turned out as prophesied by the Emperor?

On the 2nd of November occurred the abdication of Emperor Charles, following the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian front in Upper Italy.  On the same day news was brought to the Emperor of the heroic resistance of my old regiment, the Guard Cuirassiers, to the advancing enemy.  This report was received by him with joy and gratitude, alas, almost the final joy of his imperial life.

On the 3rd of November, the Emperor betook himself by way of Liege and Brussels to the battlefront.  Near Ghent representatives from eleven divisions were greeted and decorated.  The presence of the Kaiser had not been announced and the fresh and hardy and orderly appearance of the troops was all the more gratifying.  The spontaneous enthusiasm of the soldiers on seeing their Commander-in-Chief was also most encouraging.

On the 5th of November in the early morning we arrived in Spa.  During the immediately following days we learned of the revolt in Kiel and of the demand of the Social Democrats for the abdication of the Emperor.

Railroad connection with Germany began to be irregular and broken.  Soon it ceased altogether.  No train crossing the Rhine.  Telegraphic and telephonic connection with Berlin became difficult.  It appeared to be under some sort of censorial control and confidential messages could no longer be trusted.  Finally we had to have recourse to air service.  Two airships flew to Berlin, but none returned.

I come now to the 9th of November, that day of greatest misfortune to our Fatherland.  In the night or early morning the Chancellor, Prince Max, telegraphed that the Emperor must abdicate, otherwise the Cabinet could no longer remain, that the Social revolution was extending on all sides, and that the Social-Democrats could no longer hold the radicals under control.

Pt 2:

It was also reported that the city and town officials in the large cities on the coast and in the western and southern portions of the Empire had assumed independent authority and that the Rhine and the great magazines of munitions and food along and east of this line had been seized by the Revolutionists.

Such was the situation when at 10 a.m. on that fateful day Hindenburg appeared before the Emperor.  The matter first considered was whether it were possible to suppress the internal revolt by force of arms.  The new Chief of Staff, General Groener, took the ground that there was in his opinion no prospect of success in such a move.

The idea was given up because the Emperor was unwilling to shed the blood of his own countrymen in a fratricidal conflict.  There was also the danger that the Revolutionists might stop the supplies to the army.  They had threatened it and there were supplies for only a few days at the front.

The Emperor inclined to the plan of waiting for the conclusion of the Armistice and then leading the army back in person into Germany, without announcing any purpose of employing it against the revolt.

General Groener considered this idea also unrealizable since the revolt had turned against the Emperor personally.  He said that the army would march back peacefully and in order under his (Groner's) command, but not under the Emperor's command, "Because it no longer stands behind your Majesty!" he exclaimed.

In spite of the fact that some of the generals did not agree with Groener, the plan was abandoned, in deference to his view.

I relate this in all calmness, but I beg my readers to place themselves for a moment in the position of the Emperor, who, as I well know, had never wished the war and had always had in mind the good of his people and consider what must have been his feelings when his own military subordinates now turned the consultation to the question of his abdication.

The Chancellor and his colleagues in the ministry were from Berlin, pressing with increasing earnestness and impatience for the abdication.  The Crown Prince, who had been summoned from his headquarters to take part in the deliberations, now arrived on the scene.

Under-Secretary von dem Busche telephoned from the Chancellor's office in Berlin that Liebknecht would be proclaimed President of the Republic in case the Emperor did not at once abdicate.  It was further reported that Berlin was bathed in blood, that the troops forming the garrison had gone over to the Revolutionists and that only the immediate abdication of the Emperor could save the Fatherland from civil war.

After several fruitless attempts to establish telephonic communication with Berlin, the Chief of Staff of the Garrison, Major von Berge, was reached.  He reported to the inquiry regarding the situation in Berlin that most of the troops of the garrison had mutinied, that the fighting in the streets was not very considerable and that it was not at all true that Berlin was bathed in blood.

Immediately following this message came another telephoned by His Excellency Wahnschaffe, declaring that civil conflict was no longer a matter of hours but of minutes!

Then the Emperor in great agony of mind declared that if civil war could be prevented in no other way, he would abdicate as Emperor, but would remain King of Prussia.

The Emperor signed this declaration and caused it to be telephoned to Berlin.  Immediately the following surprising answer was received: "Too late.  We can no more make use of that.  By order of the Chancellor."

The Wolf Telegraphic Bureau made public the following telegram: "His Majesty, the Emperor and King, has abdicated, the Crown Prince has renounced the succession.  Prince Max has been appointed Regent, and representative Ebert, Chancellor."

This telegram had been given to the public at midday, while the telephone message from the Kaiser announcing his decision did not leave Spa until half past one, one hour and a half later.  Nothing whatever had been said in the consultation at Spa about the renunciation of the succession by the Crown Prince and, of course, nothing about that was contained in the Emperor's telephonic message.

The action of the government in Berlin was thus nothing other or less than a coup d'etat of the most serious and virulent nature.

In the course of the afternoon, reports were received that detachments of the troops not only along the routes to the base of supplies but at the front had mutinied.  The garrison at Spa even was said to have become unreliable.  It was reported that it would not do anything against the Emperor but would do nothing for him.  Nevertheless, the Kaiser said, at 8 o'clock in the evening, in my own hearing, "I do not think of leaving.  I shall remain with the army in Spa."

Around ten o'clock the same evening the Emperor was advised by his counsellors to go into neutral territory in order to avoid further shedding of blood and civil war.  He was now called upon to make this critical decision under the feeling that he had been abandoned, even thrown overboard by his own people, and betrayed by the highest counsellor of the Crown.

What should he do?  Which way should he turn after both the front and the Fatherland had been closed to him?  After agonizing self-deliberation, he chose Holland as his place of refuge.

I come now to the 10th (November).  The night passed quietly but I doubt if a single eye was closed in sleep during its entire course.  Soon after 4 a.m. we assembled in the dining car.  The Emperor came in apparently self-possessed and calm, gave us all a friendly shake of the hand, as usual.  During the breakfast we learned the shameful terms of the armistice.

At 5 o'clock a.m. the train started for the Dutch frontier.  It had a guard of four soldiers in each car, since it had to pass through places occupied by mutinied troops.  Soon ten minutes after we halted at the little station La Reide.

In the darkness, the Emperor left the train and stepped, accompanied by a few gentlemen, into the automobile provided to take him across the Dutch frontier.

The rest of us continued in the train.  We travelled through Pepinster and Liege and ruined Vise.  About 7 a.m. the train stopped.  Obliquely across the track was a wire hedge.  We had reached the Dutch frontier.  As parting greeting the last German sentinel had called after us some coarse words.

Our car was uncoupled and we waited for the Dutch engine to take us across the frontier.  It came at about 10 o'clock a.m. and drew us into the neutral Kingdom.  When we reached the first Dutch station we saw the Emperor, who had preceded us in automobile, walking up and down the platform.

In great depression of spirit we presented ourselves before him.

The Dutch Government had been made acquainted with the decision of the Emperor by its Consul in Brussels.  The Emperor had also telegraphed to the Queen asking her permission to enter her kingdom as a private gentleman.

The Emperor had been received at the frontier by the Dutch Military Commander, Major van Dyl. T he Major looked out for our protection against the public, as the place was filled with hostile Belgian deserters.  In the course of the forenoon the German Consul at Maastricht had a number of Dutch officers, both civil and military, presented themselves before the Emperor.

We learned that the Queen had placed the Castle Amerongen, property of Count Bentick, at the service of the Emperor.  Our departure from the frontier for the Castle was fixed for the next day, the 11th of November.

It was a most depression, shameful journey.  At every station thousands of people were gathered, greeting us with shouting, whistling, cursing.  They threatened us, made signs of choking and hanging us, etc.

In such manner was our poor Emperor received on Dutch soil.