Author Topic: Imperial Icons  (Read 130545 times)

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Offline Holly

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #285 on: March 25, 2011, 12:14:53 AM »
I'm i possibly the only one here that does not think Rasputin was a devil?

I don't think anyone here is referring to him as a demon/devil. I couldn't care either way. He was just a person.
But he's not a saint in the Russian Orthodox Church and putting a halo around his head is questionable to say the least.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline nena

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #286 on: March 25, 2011, 05:14:28 AM »
Very interesting icon of the Holy Tsarevich Alexei. What does the lower left scene represent? His mother bathing in St. Seraphim's well to conceive him?
Yes, indeed, since I think that the story begins with that picture in the lower left part going upwards up to the the top, then right, and finally downwards to the lower right part of the icon.
I don't think Nena meant there was anything else to depit, he simply meant that to see it all together as his life, was sad to see. I strongly agree with you that Rasputin has no place on an icon. I don't understand why he's there, honestly.

Absolutely! IMHO, just when I try to put myself in his position, I get the conclusion how brave and energetic, like Holly said, he was. It was his strong will of his to endure all those years. Honestly, I doubt that I would be able to do so. I always say, that despite all, hemophilia didn't kill him. (Somehow, but it is also questionable how long his life would have been, due to the illness).
Quote
The icon of Alexei is fascinating. I've never seen an icon with so much going on symbolically. It's interesting to note the colors used with the clothing, I remember reading that the colors have symbolic meanings. Alexei is wearing green, which can symbolize hope, youth and eternal renovation. The red can symbolize martyrdom, life, passion, and life-giving energy.
Yes, am completely agreed. Well done, Holly! ;-)

However, back to the topic!
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Offline voyageroffreedom

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #287 on: March 25, 2011, 06:48:13 AM »
Youíre welcome Nena :) I think I have an icon for Rasputin and Alexei but this time the backgrounds represent Rasputin life.
I agree with the ones saying that Rasputin has no place in an icon, not because I think he is a demon, but simply because he is not a saint, he wasnít canonized by Orthodox Church. The thing is whenever Rasputin is a present in an icon, he is depicted with a halo, and thatís why we are criticizing and against his presence in an icon in such way. 
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #288 on: March 25, 2011, 08:32:50 AM »
Like others, I do not care one way or the other about Rasputin.  I am with the consensus- he does belong on an icon.
 Having said that, upon refection, this is NOT a Church icon. It does not follow the strict rules of iconography for the Orthodox  Church. It is merely the artistic [and a rather good one at that] of t the artist. It is definitely not worthy of veneration.
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Offline voyageroffreedom

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #289 on: March 28, 2011, 04:34:34 AM »

Found on eBay:

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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #290 on: March 28, 2011, 09:53:31 PM »
WOW! Thanks for posting!

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  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline voyageroffreedom

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #291 on: March 29, 2011, 08:58:39 AM »
Youíre welcome =).
Nicholas:
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 09:04:12 AM by voyageroffreedom »
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #292 on: March 29, 2011, 08:02:04 PM »
That one is particularly interesting...there are 6 arrows...the rest of the family?

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Offline Holly

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #293 on: March 29, 2011, 08:24:28 PM »
I would say so, blessOTMA. You can also see the six crowns on the wall with the names of the family underneath.

It's a very interesting - odd -  icon. It's interesting how all objects relating to his ruling Russia are on a table before him and he is dressed in his regular soldiers clothing.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Antonina

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #294 on: April 14, 2011, 08:02:33 AM »

Found on eBay:
This one is just like mine :)
I would say so, blessOTMA. You can also see the six crowns on the wall with the names of the family underneath.

It's a very interesting - odd -  icon. It's interesting how all objects relating to his ruling Russia are on a table before him and he is dressed in his regular soldiers clothing.

An this icon unfortunately isn't Orthodox, but heretical... The Orthodox Church never names Nicolas "искупитель" (the Atonementor).
...Столетья поплывут из темноты.

Offline voyageroffreedom

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #295 on: May 19, 2011, 05:33:17 AM »
NAOTMAA:

I'm free spirit like a butterfly.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #296 on: May 19, 2011, 06:48:05 AM »
Really nice! Thank you. Looks old and new at the samne time!  Funny too  all the children have Alix's face! ....but one CAN see her in them in thier photos

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Offline Selencia

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #297 on: September 07, 2011, 04:56:34 AM »
What does it mean that the family was put on icons? Also what is an icon? Is it like the drawings in the Catholic church that have the different saints and what they represent? I also I thought the Russian Orthodox Church was reluctant to canonize Nicholas and Alexandra?

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #298 on: September 07, 2011, 06:29:26 PM »
Both Churchs were once one, until the 1000s when the Roman Catholic church split.  We have early saints in common. Like Saint George, Saint Patrick etc...mostly from the late Roman Empire Times when Christians were being killed and  the Christian faith was still very young and unknown in some countries.

icons are Holy Images, like how Roman Catholics have statues and paintings.

As for the Tsar and his family, they were killed in a Christ like matter. I dont know how to explain well so look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanov_sainthood

and I hope that anwsers your question.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 06:37:44 PM by Mandie, the Gothic Empress »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Imperial Icons
« Reply #299 on: September 07, 2011, 08:14:03 PM »
In addition to what Mandie has said, the Great Schism between East & West was in 1450, after the sack of Constantinople by the so-called "Crusaders". There were others before but they were semi-resolved. That date was the final  break though. There was a period in Orthodoxy [Christian] when icons [Ikons] were  not tolerated and burned. "Iconoclasm' I think it was called.
 "Christlike Manner" is difficult to explain, but essentially, it means they bore their suffering [passion] with patience and forgiveness.  No one, even movie makers could possibly know what their last thoughts were in that basement,  but from all accounts I have read, they crossed themselves before the  bullets. In that, they are honoured in icons as "passion bearers" NOT apolstolic saints. In both churches,  dieing in the faith and going to the presence of god, makes one a saint [with a small "s'] All saints before 1450 are common to both  churches, according to relevance.
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Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.