Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir  (Read 234425 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline QueenEna1887

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #105 on: July 21, 2005, 06:02:23 AM »
Interesting!! But what did Vladimir and Miechen think of their daughter-in-law Ducky being a granddaughter of the Queen?

Offline Jackswife

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #106 on: July 21, 2005, 06:04:54 PM »
 Not sure about the Ducky situation for sure but given that Vladimir and Miechen both detested Alix (who like Miechen was German, and like Ducky, was a granddaughter of Victoria's) I'm sure there was some animosity. They (V & M) were both very anti-British and anti-Victoria. But Victoria was anti-Romanov so I guess it was tit for tat in the national antipathy battle!  :-/

Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4361
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2005, 06:43:15 PM »
Yes,but we also have to point out that Ducky's mother was a Grand Duchess of Russia who must have had some influence on her children preffering them to marry Germans rather then British royal family(she had to stop the negotiations between the eventual marriage of Missy and George V just because she did not like British royals)!So,when Ducky is conserned we have to think who's influence prevailed,her father's(Alfred-Victoria's son) or her mother's(Marie-daughter of the Russian Emperor) and that could be the key some family relations...

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13040
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #108 on: July 21, 2005, 07:08:29 PM »
I think so. Marie seems pretty close to her brothers and took the children to Russia pretty often it seems once they weren't small. Plus anti-Alix antipathy would've given them something to bond over.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline Bsquared

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #109 on: July 23, 2005, 06:40:46 AM »
An interesting letter from Ducky to Grand Duchess Xenia written shortly after Michen's death: "Also many thanks for your letter after Aunt Miechen's death. That was quite an other kind of grief (than that of the death of Ducky's own mother) and such sufferings and remorse but I miss her also.  I never disliked her as much as she did me...."

It appears that relationship was not great also....

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13040
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #110 on: July 23, 2005, 12:06:11 PM »
She probably didn't have a problem with her until she actually was going to become her DIL. I read somewhere that the Vladimirs basically told Kyril to just keep her as a mistress rather than marry her. Ever ambitious, Miechen must've seen the difficulties in promoting Kyril as a viable successor if he married a woman a) divorced (and from the Empress's brother!) b) not Orthodox c) a first cousin. Of course they rallied around Kyril when NII came down on him so hard after he married Ducky but that would've been more for their son's benefit than Ducky's.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline Jackswife

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #111 on: July 23, 2005, 02:47:02 PM »
 
Miechen was always on the look out for opportunities to advance the Vladimirovichi, that's for certain. I'm not sure she would have thought any woman was good enough to marry any of her sons and she was used to dominating and controlling them so much, that it must have been very hard on her DILs to get along with her, if indeed any of them really did. :-/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Jackswife »

Offline cimbrio

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 613
  • Für Ludwig II
    • View Profile
    • GonDan's Royalty Family Trees
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #112 on: July 26, 2005, 05:33:08 PM »
She took a very long time to turn Orthodox (since she wasn't marrying the direct heir to the Russian throne, there was no immediate necessity for her to convert). She and her husband had five children of which all but the first survived to adulthood, but only Kyrill and his sister Elena contracted equal marriages (he with his first cousin, the daughter of the duke of Edinburgh -the match was seen as illegal for a time but was eventually approved by the tsar himself; Elena married his "cousin" Nicholas of Greece, by whom she ahd three daughters). Aunt Miechen, as the Grand Duchess Vladimir was called within the family, was a conspiring woman who desired the throne for her sons, and indulged them all despite the licentious lives the other two sons (Boris and Andrew) led (gambling in the south of France, expensive restaurants in OParis, not to mention lovers and -eventually in the case with Andrew) a morganatic marriage with a ballet dancer which produced a son (he had no further descendants however). Miechen escaped Russia from the south via Constantinople but died not long after, in 1920. In a nutshell... I hope it helps :)

Offline Valmont

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
  • I love History  !!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #113 on: October 17, 2005, 02:32:45 PM »
After MF left St. Petersburg and moved to Kiev, Did Miechen stay in St. Petersburg?
On the same hand, How did she scape from Russia?.. Anyone knows?

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline CountessKate

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1085
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #114 on: October 17, 2005, 03:02:20 PM »
According to Meriel Buchanan, after Rasputin's death and her petition for forgiveness for Grand Duke Dmitri had been refused curtly, she left St Petersburg where she felt angry and humiliated.  She rented a villa in Kisslovosk (MB's spelling) in the Caucasus, where her son Andrei was recovering from an illness, and went there in March 1917.  After the revolution she was under house arrest, then this was relaxed, and she moved to her son's villa when her own villa's lease ran out in April 1918 (this seems so strange to me - normal life like leases on villas running out while there was chaos all around).  General Schkouro took her into the mountains in September 1918 during the fighting between the white and red armies, though she went back to Kisslovosk after only a few weeks when the fighting died down, but only in the spring of 1919 did she agree to travel over the mountains to the Black Sea where she sailed on a Lloyd Triestiner liner to Cannes.  

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13040
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #115 on: October 17, 2005, 03:32:40 PM »
I thought she was still around for awhile and subject to some harassment. Wasn't there a situation of her and a letter and the police?
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline CountessKate

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1085
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #116 on: October 17, 2005, 06:04:17 PM »
Quote
I thought she was still around for awhile and subject to some harassment. Wasn't there a situation of her and a letter and the police?


The harrassment happened in Kisslovosk where the local revolutionaries interrogated her about a letter she had written to her son Boris in St Petersburg which had been intercepted, and then they put her under house arrest.  I think Meriel Buchanan is a reasonably reliable source as she was a protege of Ducky's, so would have had quite good information from her, and of course would have known Bertie Stopford who kept Miechen supplied with money and finally managed to get her jewellery to her.  

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13040
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #117 on: October 17, 2005, 10:21:15 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.  :)
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline rita

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #118 on: October 18, 2005, 03:12:24 PM »
Is there a book available about Miechen? Do you know books in german about her life?

Offline Marlene

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2466
  • I live and breath QVD
    • View Profile
    • Royal Musings
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #119 on: October 18, 2005, 03:51:01 PM »
Quote
Is there a book available about Miechen? Do you know books in german about her life?



There are no biographies on Miechhen, although she is included in the book  The Grand Duchesses.  Also,  John Wimbles wrote an article (3 parts) in Royalty Digest, some years ago.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/