Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir  (Read 234426 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bruceaddison

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #90 on: July 11, 2005, 01:10:29 PM »
Does anyone know the story of Grand Duchess Vladimir's escape from the Bolsheviks? I have read that she left St. Petersburg in 1917 for the Causcus, but did not leave Russia until 1920. The intervening years were apparently frought with danger and hardship, which she is said to have withstood in magnificent style. Does anyone know the details? I also remember reading that a substantial part of her jewelry collection had been left in St. Petersburgh, but was retreived for her by an English admirer who was obliged to dress as a woman to escape detection. I can't locate he source of the story, but I'm almost sure that Grand Duchess Vladimir was the subject. Can anyone confirm?

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13040
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2005, 08:05:02 PM »
I forget where I read it but it's been in a few places. The British gentleman was Bertie Stoppard (sp?) who was in some diplomatic post I believe. He'd known Miechen and she apparently told him where she'd hidden some of her famous jewels. He was able to smuggle them out (I've read of him being dressed as a woman as well) and to give them to her in France. These were the jewels she was able to leave to her 4 children--the collections of pearls, rubies, emeralds and sapphires I believe. She died not too long into exile and had apparently arrived in France quite different in appearance from her ordeal and somewhat broken in spirit. Perhaps someone else can flush out the details as my books are still in 'hurricane storage'.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline bruceaddison

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #92 on: July 12, 2005, 09:09:27 AM »
Thanks so much. Your reference to her changed looks is certainly born out by the photo posted by Marc on April 8th. I also remember reading that upon her evacuation, with the Bolsheviks at her heels (she was one of the last of the Romanovs to leave Russia), she refused to depart on a ship that would call at Istanbul, lest she be subjected to the indignity of de-lousing. She eventually left on an Italian liner. I also read that, broken in health and spirit, she died soon after arriving in France (I believe she owned a villa there). If anyone knows the details of the 1917-1920 period in her life, I would be most interested. Thanks again.

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13040
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2005, 09:49:14 AM »
I think it was noted later that the one posted on 4/8 was of Queen Olga of Greece. She was also trapped in Russia (being born a Russian Grand Duchess and a frequent visitor home) but managed to eventually make her way to France I believe. The years of tragedy told on her face as well--being a Constantinovichi she must've grieved mightily over the deaths of so many of her nephews and also her cousins. (Not to mention all the Greek upheavals)
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline bruceaddison

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #94 on: July 12, 2005, 02:59:49 PM »
Thanks so much for the wonderful photos. Right you are about the photo of Queen Olga- I missed the correction when I first looked at it. Note the dog in the background of the photo of the Grand Duchess in exile- the black and white French Bulldog. It seems to be the same dog in the photo of the Grand Duchess and her grandchildren at the picnic posted earlier. Thanks again

Offline Bsquared

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #95 on: July 12, 2005, 08:12:20 PM »
I think Michen was the most poisonous member of the Imperial Family- always working against the top people, from Alexander III and Marie to Nicky and Alix.  How could they have trusted her with her widely known remarks that betrayed her lust for their position.  Her sons were worthless members of the Imperial Family as well.  

The example of Michen was taken up by many of the younger members of the imperial family and undermined the position of the Tsar more than anything else.  Who could Nicky and Alix trust in the family? Very few indeed.

Offline QueenEna1887

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #96 on: July 13, 2005, 11:01:42 PM »
Miechen seemed to be a confident yet beautiful woman but I read she was very vindictive and untrustworthy to the other members of the Imperial family. I was once told when I was during my research with John Kendrick that she tried to set Nicholas up in 1916 in result of getting her son Cyril on the throne. What exactly did she try to do?  Miechen and Alix did not like each other. why not? Why did she try to sabotage Sascha and Minnie? Did OTMAA like their aunt Miechen?

Offline Bsquared

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2005, 05:02:20 AM »
Sasha did not like that Michen refused to convert to Orthodoxy, is spite of being married to a senior Grand Duke.  Also, Sasha and Minnie heard her remarks made after the bad train accident that almost wiped out Sasha, Minnie and their children, saying "we will never have this opportunity again". Minnie and Michen were definitely social rivals as well.

Michen tried to win Alix over at the time of her engagement, being an enthusiastic member of Nicky's family in Coburg.  However, both Michen and Vladimir disliked Queen Victoria, her family, and Britishness, to a point that Alix would surely have been turned off.  Michen's haughty remarks and obvious ambition would have caused Nicky and Alix to keep their distance.

Michen through a ball for Olga and Tatiana when they came of age, but I doubt there were close ties between OTMAA and Michen.  

Offline QueenEna1887

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2005, 09:21:06 AM »
Oh!! I get it, she wanted to be Empress! She couldn't stand being second place! Why did she and Vladimir hate Queen Victoria and her family?

Offline QueenEna1887

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2005, 02:06:53 PM »
Why did Miechen want to be Empress so bad!!! She was already popular in the family! What else more did she want. Can someone tell me why she wanted to win Alix over?

Offline Bsquared

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #100 on: July 14, 2005, 06:22:14 PM »
She probably wanted to win Alix over (early on) in order to have real influence with the imperial couple, which she was never able to have. Thwarted in this, she turned on them like a doberman!


Offline Valmont

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
  • I love History  !!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2005, 07:59:25 PM »
Regular Girls dream of being Princesses... What Does a Princess dream of being but a Queen or better yet....and Empress???
Now, if you add  ambition, the absolute power to crush your  social rivals and a few drops of  the thought that your own sons have the same right to rule as your nephew, to the recipie... well.. I think you get the idea..... I do not think we can Judge her for doing something that we all might have done if we have the chance..... Who can trhrow the first stone???.

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2005, 08:34:49 PM »
OR, perhaps a princess would dream of being a "regular" girl.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline QueenEna1887

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #103 on: July 20, 2005, 02:49:08 PM »
The Question is why did Miechen and Vladimir hate Queen Victoria and her family? Their daughter-in-law Ducky was the Queen's granddaughter? Did they hate her?

Offline Bsquared

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #104 on: July 21, 2005, 05:08:05 AM »
The earlier Romanov's disliked/mistrusted QV and family as QV disliked many Romanovs (excepting Olga of Greece and her mother).  This was softened a bit with Alix and Minnie of Denmark marrying the heirs to both thrones. Affie and Marie's marriage was not a happy one and probably did not improve relations between the two ruling families. Further intermarriages between QVs family and Romanovs brought more cordial relations.  

When Ella and Serge got married, the most overtly anti-British Romanovs were Vladimir and Michen, who objected to Ella's British background. Alix was probably aware of this and resisted Michen's attempts to take her "under her wing" when she first came to Russia.