Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir  (Read 220873 times)

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Offline Teddy

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Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« on: December 11, 2004, 11:34:45 AM »
I was wondering of Maria Pavlovna and Duke Heinrich (half-brother, married to Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands) of Mecklenburg-Schwerin had many contact with eachother?

Because I never see a picture of MP with her German relatives in general.


Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2004, 01:03:39 AM »
I believe that she did, but photos may be scarce as there was such an age difference. There was a photo in one of the royal photo books of a Reuss wedding that Vladimir & Miechen were at as either the bride or groom was a relative. There are probably a lot more photos of Miechen out there that just haven't been published yet as most of the books on are N&A. That's why Camera and the Tsars is one of my all-time favorites.
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Offline Teddy

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2004, 03:28:17 PM »
I have only once seen a picture of MP being at the wedding of her half brother...Thats the only picture what I know were MP and others of the Mecklenburg members are together on one picture...

On the picture she is sitting with Grand Duke Vladimir and I thougt Grand Duke Boris.

Offline Marc

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2005, 06:05:37 AM »
I know that we have some infos about her on Vladimirovichi of Helen Vladimirovna thread,but I thik this woman deserves much more atention!Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna,born Duchess Marie Alexandrine von Mecklenburg-Schwerin!Such a strong minded person...I was wondering what were all the reasons why she was considered "the grandiest of all Grand Duchesses"?I assume that every Grand Duchess was rich enough to have great amount of jewels,so there must be also some other reason!?!Is there any good portrait of her(she was beautiful when young),since I could find only photos?

Offline DOMOVOII

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2005, 06:47:17 AM »
You are quite right, for me GDss Maria Pavlovna was one of the most interesting women of the era.  The Grande Dame of Europe, was a soubriquet conferred upon her, and she dazzled it's capitals, with her style and jewels, and more importantly her "presence".

She was famed for her jewels and must have been Cartier's best customer being instrumental in bringing the Parisian jeweller to St Petersburg, even to the point of introducing him to the Imperial couple. Miechen ordered a great many important pieces from him right up until 1914 and the outbreak of war.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to dig up much in the way of information about her, I always assume that the animosity that N&A had towards her, influenced the number of biogs  written about her and then assumed that GD Kyrill wouldn't have wanted the greyer areas of his entitlement to the throne in exile made common knowledge. I have asked and asked, and abe/amazon searched but to no avail. Perhaps some one else has had better luck.



A stand can be taken against an army of men, but no stand can be made against an invasion of an idea          V Hugo

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2005, 10:02:45 AM »
I think she gained the reputation because of a variety of factors:
1) her regal and dignified bearing--she loved being a GDSs
2) her collection of jewels--her collection was well-regarded even by Romanov standards
3) her love of society and her filling in of the role due to AF's dislike of it
4) her competitive nature to be THE hostess of St Petersburg society
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2005, 10:15:04 AM »
Here is what Missy had to say and it sheds light on why Miechen was such a popular hostess:

Aunt Miechen, an exceptionally charming and intelligent lady, was also ambitious and it was not without a certain satisfaction that by force of circumstance she became the social centre of Petersburg. It must be admitted that she was an incomparably amiable hostess and knew to perfection how to receive all manner of men. All through life she had been cherished, adulted, spoiled. She could spend what she would, every luxury, every comfort, every honour, every advantage were hers and she was one of the best-dressed women of her time; her clothes were superlatively smart and she had the great art of knowing exactly what to wear for each occasion; she never made a mistake. An atmosphere of unlimited prosperity emanated from her, she was the undisputed centre of her world, her very aspect invited attention; one of life's most spoilt children, she seemed to expect everyone who approached her to continue the spoiling, which the generally did, and yet it was she who appeared to be dispensing favours. There was great art in this. Her house was certainly a most pleasant one for a short stay, as her hospitality was unlimited, and all hte most important and interesting people came together in her salon. Here she reigned supreme...she was less intelligent than believed, but she had la maniere and this counted more than anything.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Marc

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2005, 11:14:05 AM »
Wau...this is great!So that was the reason why AF didn't like her...I can't think what would had been if Marie was an Empress...Things could go quite opposite,maybe even without revolution!Any regal coulour portrait of her?

Offline DOMOVOII

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2005, 11:49:57 AM »
, AF didn't like her for a number of reasons, mainly that MP had ambitions for her children that the Imp Fam didn't share. MP also towards the end of the Empire became involved in a number of small schemes/plots to force N to resign and install another family member on the throne. I am sure there are many other examples that members can quote but I believe AF's attitude was influenced foremost by these. She also differred her conversion to Orthodoxy which was another sticking point for family members.

MP filled the social void in St Petersburg, her court outshone that of the Empress. Which considering AF had little inclination for it only guaranteed MP's social standing.

All in all a very interesting woman. I would have loved to have met her.

My favourite quote regarding her;

"We have heard a great deal of the gentlemen of the age and now one about the ladies, Well, here is one without any shadow of doubt whatsoever, in fact  I may call her the Lady of Europe of the time. With Petersburg as her capital city where her court outstripped that of the Empress, every other capital knew her well and none better than London. Imperious, capable to a degree that was uncanny; without any preparation whatever she could adapt herself to the most diverse assembly without any previous knowledge of it's human components and come out of the ordeal as fresh and as undaunted as when she entered. Always with the right question to ask, the search of which is the prime concern for all royal ladies, was to her as natural as the intake of breath."

HC Bainbridge
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by DOMOVOII »
A stand can be taken against an army of men, but no stand can be made against an invasion of an idea          V Hugo

Offline Marc

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2005, 05:41:51 PM »
That's one more reason why I wan't to see her portrait(black and white photos are o.k. but still...art is art and art is beauty)...That's why I am so badly searching for it!

Offline gem_10

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2005, 07:37:36 PM »
What do you think MP's views with other grand duchesses? I would like to know if she ever felt a sort of "rivalry" for Ella since Ella is also one of the most beautiful and well-loved grand duchesses in the family.

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2005, 04:41:09 AM »
True,but I think that Ella was not to keen on getting high society positions,because she already had one(there isnt anything to fight for) and had her own world...But,as we see Marie Pavlovna enjoyed beeing Grand Dame...so I think there was no rivality!Maybe,just maybe if Ella was thinking the same about MP because of Alix's influence!

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2005, 05:14:36 AM »
I think Ella was frightened of Miechen.

Offline gem_10

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2005, 06:58:34 AM »
Quote
I think Ella was frightened of Miechen.


In what way?

Offline Marc

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2005, 07:06:53 AM »
I think that the two of them simply had different worlds...I think that rather Grand Duchesses Anastasia and Militsa could be jelous of Michen,but sinse Crown Prince Danilo of Montenegro met Duchess Auguste Charlotte Jutta von Mecklenburg-Strelitz(his future wife) in Michen's salon,even that seems to be out of guestion.But it would be interesting to know wich Grand Duchess or Princess was jelous of Michen!