Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir  (Read 217808 times)

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Offline Dennis

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2005, 09:10:28 AM »
So, how does one pronounce "Miechen?"


I wonder if she was jealous of Alix and Ellas's beauty?
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Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2005, 09:20:57 AM »
Isn't it true that Miechen was instrumental in helping Ella integrate into St P society when first she was married?  Also that they initailly shared the common bond of being the only Grand Duchesses who shared the same Lutheran faith, having not converted to Orthodoxy.
It is more than likely that Miechen's love of grandeur and society and Ella's increasingly spiritual bent (and her eventual conversion) caused their paths to digress.
It is said that Miechen attempted to become friendly with Alix upon her marriage with a view to exerting her influence over her, but that her attempts at friendship were rebuffed, for which the former never forgave the Empress.  Miechen spent a great deal of time and money in her atempts to be leader of society; having said that both she and Vladimir were very interested in the arts, and their patronage and influence was considerable.
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2005, 09:23:49 AM »
It sounds like it was basically a personality conflict...

Offline Marlene

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2005, 10:43:38 AM »
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Isn't it true that Miechen was instrumental in helping Ella integrate into St P society when first she was married?  Also that they initailly shared the common bond of being the only Grand Duchesses who shared the same Lutheran faith, having not converted to Orthodoxy."

Grand Duchess Elizabeth (wife of Constantine) never converted, and remained Lutheran.

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Offline DOMOVOII

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2005, 11:46:28 AM »
Wouldn't Maria have out-ranked Ella anyways?

She was the third most important woman in the Empire, and after 1909 when Vladimir died,  possibly the most independant of all the Romanov women. Able to do as she chose, to go, to buy,to see, to wear, to visit whatever and wherever she wanted. With none of the constraints of a husband or the social predilections of others (Ella's Alms) beside that of pleasing herself.

I'm not entirely sure whether she'd have felt jealous of anyone, she seemed to me to be extremely self assured and aware of her talents. Jealousy to me only occurs when there is doubt in the mind. She definitely knew her mind.

Looking at pictures of her in her youth; (sorry I can't post... the valves and pistons canna take it Cap'n!!) she was pretty. Now she doesn't have the "refined, ethereal" quality  that Ella and Alix in her youth had but is never the less not unnattractive. Sure she thickened in later years but she remained a striking woman. (I suppose a few hundred carat weight in diamonds will always help there)

Most of the famous jewels got divided between her children at her death, some pieces from her collection passed to family members around Europe . Queen Mary acquired the tiara you see in the photo of MP, it is now part of the Queen Elizabeth's personal collection.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2005, 01:24:57 PM »
Yes, Miechen would've outranked Ella though Ella was probably in a better position being close to NII when he was Tsarevich and then later when Nicholas married Alexandra. Miechen apparently wanted to gain the young Empress's confidence when Alix first arrived and be sort of a mentor but was rebuffed. With Ella's influence in that arena there could've been some bad feeling.

I don't have my Mager bio on Ella which probably talks about her early time as a leader of society but here's what Almedingen's bio has to say in regards to Miechen:

'Not all of the in-laws became her friends, but Elizabeth succeeding in avoiding friction even with the peevish and difficult Grand Duchess Michael and the formidable 'Miechen', wife of Grand Duke Vladimir, who, in spite of his frenzied Anglo-phobia, approved of the wife of a brother whom he held in anything but affection. The Emperor and his wife were great intimates, and Elizabeth grew very fond of their children, particularly of Nicholas..and of Xenia...'

re: Romanov women and war work
'Now the great star on the Petrograd firmament was Grand Duchess Vladimir, a consummate hostess, a woman of a great many gifts and as many ambitions....the handsome, imperious 'Miechen' had it all very much her own way. In justice be it said that she did more than organize balls and parties de plaisir . President of the Academy of Arts, she gave a helping hand to many a struggling artist. She prided herself on moving with the tiems, and poets, musicians, sculptors and painters could be met in her enormous crimson drawing-room. But Grand Duchess Vladimir possessed two unpleasing traits: contempt and jealousy. She despised her nephew, the Emperor, and considered his wife a nonentity. Herself a virtual stranger to Moscow, Grand Duchess Vladimir was jealous of Elizabeth's popularity there. Within the first few days of the war, 'Miechen' organized her own committee. She commanded great wealth and meant to spend much of it on war-work. It irked her to be excluded from those preliminary conferences at Tsarskoe and she is supposed to have said that 'dearest Ella surely had her hands full already what with her convent and all the paupers in Moscow'. [These comments reached her ears] but 'Elizabeth remained indifferent'. Gossip had long since lost its sting for her.'

'Quite a few members of the Romanov clan considered her [Ella] intransigeante. Grand Duchess Vladimir said that it might have been better if 'dearest Ella' had been entirely cloistered--such a chilly breath did she bring to the family gatherings, and why, Grand Duchess Vladimir would ask, appear at a wedding at all if you vanished immediately the service was over? Would a vocation be imperilled by a glass of champagne drunk to the bride's health and happiness.'

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Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2005, 03:42:52 PM »
You have got to admire the woman's style.  Much as I like Ella, I can't help but feel that it would be Miechen to whom I would be drawn, like a moth to a flame, if I had been fortunate to have been alive at that time and to have had the entrée to her society.
'Would a vocation be imperilled by a glass of champagne drunk to the bride's health and happiness?'  I can hear her now.........
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Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2005, 04:33:31 PM »


I think that it is time for some jewellery; let's start with Miechen's fabulous emerald and diamond necklace which ultimately ended up with Barbara Hutton.....
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2005, 04:38:06 PM »


Then there is her wonderful ruby and daimond tiara that was made for her by Cartier in 1908,  The central; stone was the Beauharnais ruby which had been bought from descendants of Empress Josephine and which weighed 5.22 carats.  Subsequently sold after Miechen's death, it was purchased by Nancy Leeds, whose appetite for jewels was nearly as well developed as Miechen's
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2005, 04:39:56 PM »


How about a brooch to add to Miechen's ruby parure....?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2005, 04:46:35 PM »


Perhaps sapphires and diamonds?  Sapphire and diamond kokoshnik set with a cushion shaped sapphire of 137.20 carats flanked by six cabochon sapphires weighing 102.16 carats on circular-cut diamond mount.  Commissioned by Miechen from Cartier in 1909.  Subsequently acquired by Marie of Roumania and passed to her daughter Ileana, who subsequently took it into exile and sold it.
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2005, 04:49:40 PM »


This is lovely.  A briolette diamond aigrette designed as three floral sprays with circular-cut diamond base, suspending briolette-cut diamonds.  Commisioned by Miechen from Cartier in 1908 - I wonder what became of it.....?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2005, 04:51:15 PM »
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 she is supposed to have said that 'dearest Ella surely had her hands full already what with her convent and all the paupers in Moscow'. [These comments reached her ears] but 'Elizabeth remained indifferent'. Gossip had long since lost its sting for her.'

'Quite a few members of the Romanov clan considered her [Ella] intransigeante. Grand Duchess Vladimir said that it might have been better if 'dearest Ella' had been entirely cloistered--such a chilly breath did she bring to the family gatherings, and why, Grand Duchess Vladimir would ask, appear at a wedding at all if you vanished immediately the service was over? Would a vocation be imperilled by a glass of champagne drunk to the bride's health and happiness.'



>:(Then I'm sure Miechen only spoke about the 'chilly breath' she brought to family gatherings because she was a superficial woman with no understanding of Ella's character at all.
I'm sure I wouldn't have found the air chilly...and as for the glass of champagne, for Ella it was a total commitment; "he who sets his handthe plough" etc. she had left behind the world of 'high society' & that's why she left early after the service.  
It might have done Miechen good to visit Ella's convent & show a bit more understanding!!
:) :)

Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2005, 04:52:15 PM »


Finally, a very lovely emerald and diamond aigrette mounted with two pear shaped cabochon emeralds on a 19th century diamond leaf motif.  Commissioned in 1913 from Cartier (they must have loved her to bits....)
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2005, 05:29:43 PM »
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 Herself a virtual stranger to Moscow, Grand Duchess Vladimir was jealous of Elizabeth's popularity there. ...It irked her to be excluded from those preliminary conferences at Tsarskoe and she is supposed to have said that 'dearest Ella surely had her hands full already what with her convent and all the paupers in Moscow'. [These comments reached her ears] but 'Elizabeth remained indifferent'. Gossip had long since lost its sting for her.'



Which, more to the point, perfectly sums up both of their characters!