Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir  (Read 217825 times)

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Offline kmerov

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2005, 06:56:34 PM »
I have read that she was both a friend and competion of MF, and that she didnt have high regards on Alexander III. Does anyone know some more about that?

Offline otmafan

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2005, 07:01:36 PM »
I always thought the Michen and Minnie were enemies. Michen longed for power in Russia and resented Minnie for having it.  ;)

Offline Dennis

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2005, 08:08:31 PM »
No one has answered my pronounciation.

Would it be Miechen = My Kin, My Ken

Miechen = My Chin, My chen

Miechen = Me Kin, Ken

Miechen = Me Chin, Chen

Perhaps no one living has heard the name pronounced as she would have.
Dennis

Offline gem_10

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2005, 10:39:20 PM »
No offence to all those who like Miechen but I don't like her. Sorry.

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2005, 03:22:20 AM »
Quote
No offence to all those who like Miechen but I don't like her. Sorry.


Neither do I, lunarmaiden, though I'm sure she had many admirable qualities and perhaps there was more to her than the somewhat superficial pose she presented to the world...maybe?
Perhaps if she had read/heard the quotation from Ella (below your posting) she might have been more understanding of Ella's motives.

Johanna

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2005, 06:37:45 AM »
Hello, a newbie here! Actually a longtime lurker.  ;)

Miechen (pronounced probably [meehhen] with a long ee and a slighty harder fricative than an average English h. Have you heard how 'Bach' is pronounced in German?) is great, or at least her jewellery is grand.

I'm awfully curious about where these pictures of Miechen's  jewelry come from... It would make the guessing of the origins of the jewelry easier.

Martyn, GREAT picture of the sapphire kokoshnik. Different than in Munn's book. I'm curious of where it is coming from.

Martyn, I have a slightly different picture of the floral aigrette (waterfall aigrette) with the briolettes. Somebody once send the picture on the Royal Jewels Message Board with the information that it would have been made by Chaumet, not Cartier. Though Cartier would sound more true considering her being a good customer for the King of Jewellers.

Apropos, the little picture of Miechen wearing a very unique sunburst hair ornament with what seems to be one of her large hexagonal emeralds on the center. -There is a nice picture collage of it on Ursulas excellent site Royal Magazin. It must be the only time I've seen a fringe tiara worn this way if it is the fringe tiara:

http://www.royal-magazin.de/russia.htm

Johanna

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2005, 07:02:12 AM »
Quote
Ileana



I think that someone has done a bit of copy/pasting on photo. Not you, Grandduchessella, of course. But look at the large sapphire on the center which is'nt at the center of Ileana's forehead. Also the hair looks like cut below the tiara. How annoying.  

I would love to see at least one large and good picture of Ileana wearing the tiara.  I wonder if there are any? I guess she didn't have that many occasions where to wear it.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2005, 07:22:27 AM »
GDElla, that sapphire and diamond aigrette is lovely!  I wonder if it did indeed belong to her?  Where did you find this image? The diamond briolette and the emerald bead aigrette were very fashionable at the time that Miechen ordered them.  The emerald and diamond aigrette was I think inspired by the designs of Bakst for the ballet Russes; this style of head ornament became more fashionable that the conventional style of tiara......
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

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Offline gem_10

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2005, 08:01:32 AM »
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Neither do I, lunarmaiden, though I'm sure she had many admirable qualities and perhaps there was more to her than the somewhat superficial pose she presented to the world...maybe?



Yes you have a point there bluetoria. I know she may had admirable qualities but it just happened that Miechen became more and more absorbed by her desire to be the leader of St Petersburg society.
I just don't like her because of the way she had to compete with MF and for not understanding Ella. That's all.

Offline Marc

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2005, 08:03:10 AM »
Great jewels pictures!I am stunned!Yet,she was a great patron of arts and we don't have any colour portrait of her(with maybe wearing those jewels)!I would badly like to see some of her colour portraits!!!  :(

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2005, 08:06:01 AM »
Quote


Yes you have a point there bluetoria. I know she may had admirable qualities but it just happened that Miechen became more and more absorbed by her desire to be the leader of St Petersburg society.
I just don't like her because of the way she had to compete with MF and for not understanding Ella. That's all.


;) A kindred spirit! :)

Offline Dennis

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2005, 09:20:32 AM »
Actually, Ileana looks very much like a young Ingrid Bergman.
Dennis

Offline Martyn

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2005, 09:43:19 AM »
Quote
Hello, a newbie here! Actually a longtime lurker.  ;)

Miechen (pronounced probably [meehhen] with a long ee and a slighty harder fricative than an average English h. Have you heard how 'Bach' is pronounced in German?) is great, or at least her jewellery is grand.

I'm awfully curious about where these pictures of Miechen's  jewelry come from... It would make the guessing of the origins of the jewelry easier.

Martyn, GREAT picture of the sapphire kokoshnik. Different than in Munn's book. I'm curious of where it is coming from.

Martyn, I have a slightly different picture of the floral aigrette (waterfall aigrette) with the briolettes. Somebody once send the picture on the Royal Jewels Message Board with the information that it would have been made by Chaumet, not Cartier. Though Cartier would sound more true considering her being a good customer for the King of Jewellers.

Apropos, the little picture of Miechen wearing a very unique sunburst hair ornament with what seems to be one of her large hexagonal emeralds on the center. -There is a nice picture collage of it on Ursulas excellent site Royal Magazin. It must be the only time I've seen a fringe tiara worn this way if it is the fringe tiara:

http://www.royal-magazin.de/russia.htm


The diamond briolette aigrette is most definitely by Cartier.
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline DOMOVOII

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2005, 12:01:28 PM »
Thr briolette tiara is indeed magnificent, the swinging briolettes must have caught every eye with their fire. And Miechen would wear this and other headpieces,  there is a photo with the tips of the sprays poking through  circular holes cut into a kokoshnik along with other diadems and jewels!! Admittedly this photo is of MP in fancy dress costume, (not the 1903 costume ball (Tiara dated 1908 )  but similarly, 17th century in theme.) Wowee!!

Martyn, do you know of any photo's of these pieces worn, the Emerald aigrette, is stunning, love the upright drops (if that makes sense), but how were they worn, dead centre, set back from the hairline a'la tiara? Round the back decorating a chignon?  Worn at the front it may look like a huge pair of bugs antennae!

            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the role of a Grand Duchess? If you retire from that job, does that make you a better Grand Duchess?
Does one need to be seen to perform good works for them to be good. Ella spent her time administering to the poor, and Miechen organised a wealth of high profile fundraising charity- functions, Bazaars, Parties Cotillions and Balls. (Are these less worthwhile because they are happy, fun occasions despite the monies they raised for charity?)

The voluntary work I do is not done as a benefit to others ie, that is not the reason I do it, I do it because it needs to be done,  it is something I have done for years, which  I enjoy to do, I like the people I deal with and the "good" of it never enters the equation . It doesn't mean I work less hard at it, or have less successes. It certainly doesn't mean that I can look down on people who haven't or don't do things for others. That is conceit.

As Grand Duchesses  I'm sure they both performed their respective duties admirably, only, the holier than thou Ella draws most praise 'cause everyone knew of her obvious efforts.

I can quite understand what MP refers to, with her "the chilly breath" quote, as I am sure I would feel less inclined to have a rip-roaring night out if it was in the presence of a Nun*. Not usually known for their love of excess, and what is a ball if not excess on the grandest scale. (*Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence excepted.)

But then you'll tell me on MP's part this was completely un-altruistic, only to further herself and her reputation.Certainly no benefit to anyone but herself.
I think not.

I myself sometimes wish she had the chutzpah to carry out her threat to Paleologue, and "exterminated" the Empress....we may still have Romanovs on the throne in Russia had that been that case.

If she'd acted in the December of 1916 when Rasputin was killed, and succeeded in putting...GD Dmitri P on the throne, for example-- (the Vladimirovichi plotters thought he would be best received by the country) the March Revolution may not have occured (between NII's arranged "abdication" , the new Emperor's coronation, changes to the government, a responsible ministry etc) and the Bolsheviks though barracking from outside all the while would have had to wait for the next viable opportunity (which with a progressive, strong, monarch, strong leadership of the Armed Forces etc may be years and years....1929??) to take hold in Russia,

You never know.


A stand can be taken against an army of men, but no stand can be made against an invasion of an idea          V Hugo

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2005, 04:44:46 PM »
Well, I don't think that Ella was 'holier than thou' (which has a negative connotation). Felix Yussupov, certainly a party-loving fellow, adored her and she didn't seem to throw a wet blanket on him. I think she and Miechen were very different personalities and Ella being a nun doesn't make her a _worse_ GDss than Miechen because Ella chose to work more hands on. They both just had different styles. I don't fault Miechen for hosting parties to raise money but Ella as a nun would take a different path. It's apples and oranges.  I am intrigued by Miechen and think she would've been fun to associate with but I also think that it would only be fun if you didn't challenge her or try to usurp her. If you were content to sit in her shadow, I imagine she was fascinating company.
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