Author Topic: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte  (Read 219769 times)

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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2004, 08:30:13 PM »
I would dare to say that your money in this case would be extremely well spent!!!   ;)

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Offline felix

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2005, 10:42:13 AM »
 Marie  seems to have been of a new breed of Royal.  Has anyone read her book ? Or have any information on her. She was in a very odd  relationship, had lovers, was well educated.  How did she deal with her husband and his uncle ? Did she get help from Marie of Denmark ?   And any photos of her. Thanks

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2005, 03:19:16 PM »
Quote
grandduchessella has written a lot about her in the Danish section - Waldermar & George thread. :) (Only just discovered it :))


Thanks for the plug!  :)  MB is definitely a fascinating person. The aspects I recounted mostly have to do with her relationship w/her husband in respect to his own relations with his nephews. I'll try to gather more on MB herself. She is definitely an interesting person. Such a non-conformist in so many ways, yet she never just packed up and left George even unofficially. They were together until the end--and that was a long time. A devotee of psychoanalysis, even writing articles, yet with so many contradictions in her own personality and what would be called today 'issues'. Her biography is really quite interesting but it was still hard to get a handle completely on her because I think in many ways she didn't know her own mind despite her interest in psychology.
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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2005, 05:03:32 PM »
Knowing virtually nothing about her, may I ask: Since she sounds a little 'unusual' (or rather you say she doesn't know her own mind) is this stomach-churning account which is so horrible (on the Greek thread) to be believed as accurate? And all the rest of her accounts? Or was she also 'fanciful' (for want of a better expression)? What sort of person was she? Was it simply her marriage that made her as she was...I can't get to grips with her character at all from those horrible things on the Greek thread?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2005, 09:42:18 PM »
Quote

Thanks for the plug!  :)  MB is definitely a fascinating person. The aspects I recounted mostly have to do with her relationship w/her husband in respect to his own relations with his nephews. I'll try to gather more on MB herself. She is definitely an interesting person. Such a non-conformist in so many ways, yet she never just packed up and left George even unofficially. They were together until the end--and that was a long time. A devotee of psychoanalysis, even writing articles, yet with so many contradictions in her own personality and what would be called today 'issues'. Her biography is really quite interesting but it was still hard to get a handle completely on her because I think in many ways she didn't know her own mind despite her interest in psychology.



Prince George of Greece never dated a "nephew" or "nephews," perhaps you meant to say George dated his uncle, Prince Valdemar of Denmark, for a very long time...about five decades!

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2005, 10:17:06 PM »
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Prince George of Greece never dated a "nephew" or "nephews," perhaps you meant to say George dated his uncle, Prince Valdemar of Denmark, for a very long time...about five decades!

Arturo Beéche


Well,yes, I did. That's what the topic referred back to was about (the one about Waldemar & George in the Greek section). Just a case of typing too fast. I should've said her relations with her husband in regards to _his_ uncle. Sorry for any confusion.

Quote
Knowing virtually nothing about her, may I ask: Since she sounds a little 'unusual' (or rather you say she doesn't know her own mind) is this stomach-churning account which is so horrible (on the Greek thread) to be believed as accurate? And all the rest of her accounts? Or was she also 'fanciful' (for want of a better expression)? What sort of person was she? Was it simply her marriage that made her as she was...I can't get to grips with her character at all from those horrible things on the Greek thread?


I tend to think her account was pretty accurate--it seems an almost therapeutic way of addressing the situation. I wouldn't call her 'fanciful' just someone who had a keen desire to understand herself and those around her. She's actually pretty modern in that respect and probably healthier than many royals of her day whou could've used some therapy! I don't think her marriage made her that way entirely--she had some 'Daddy' issues already as well as an apparent lack of self-esteem and a desire to belong somewhere. Ironically though, she doesn't seem to have bonded well with the Greek/Danish  family so that feeling of not belonging apparently continued on. She is a hard character to get a grip on. As for not knowing her own mind, I meant it more as she had such confused and convoluted feelings towards many of those closest to her--especially George. She had a LOT of resentment, yet still loved him and I think desired a real connection (emotional if not physical) with him that was always denied her. I'm nowhere near bright or eloquent enough to try and describe her though   :-/  I can only recommend the book or try to get some more references from it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2005, 07:39:47 AM »
Quote


Prince George of Greece never dated a "nephew" or "nephews," perhaps you meant to say George dated his uncle, Prince Valdemar of Denmark, for a very long time...about five decades!

Arturo Beéche


Was it really as long as that?  Five decades?  Goodness, nowadays they would have received gifts to mark the anniversary!
GDElla, don't do yourself down!  Your appraisals of the characters that we discuss on this Board are never wide of the mark.  Thank you for this very interesting information about Marie.  
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2005, 08:43:17 AM »
Quote

Was it really as long as that?  Five decades?  Goodness, nowadays they would have received gifts to mark the anniversary!
GDElla, don't do yourself down!  Your appraisals of the characters that we discuss on this Board are never wide of the mark.  Thank you for this very interesting information about Marie.  


Indeed and kudos to them for having the opportunity to share this undivided love that kept them devoted to each other for such a long time.  Just imagine that when Valdemar died in 1939 he was in his 81st yerar and George was in his 70th!

Both were forced by circumstances and royual obligations to marry, and what wonderful women they married, yet retained their special bond above all.

a ture love story!

Arturo Beéche
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bluetoria

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2005, 10:04:51 AM »
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I don't think her marriage made her that way entirely--she had some 'Daddy' issues already as well as an apparent lack of self-esteem and a desire to belong somewhere.  


A wedding night like that can't have helped her self-esteem though, can it!!

Was her father Roland Bonaparte? If so, how was he related to Jerome et al. ? Who was her mother? (Please!)

Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2005, 10:24:01 AM »
Her father was Roland and her mother Marie Blanc. Roland was descent from Napoleon I brother Lucien. Jerome was first cousin to Roland's father Pierre, right?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by PrinceEddy1864 »
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2005, 11:39:26 AM »
Quote

Indeed and kudos to them for having the opportunity to share this undivided love that kept them devoted to each other for such a long time.  Just imagine that when Valdemar died in 1939 he was in his 81st yerar and George was in his 70th!

Both were forced by circumstances and royual obligations to marry, and what wonderful women they married, yet retained their special bond above all.

a ture love story!

Arturo Beéche


I guess I can't share that enthusiasm, not because they're gay, but because I think there's an inherent 'ick factor' in the fact that they were uncle/nephew (and yes I think some of the uncle/niece liaisons in royal history are just as icky).  :-/
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Offline Janet_W.

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2005, 12:23:19 PM »
When an older relative becomes sexually involved with a younger relative, it's very possible--to put it mildly--that this older relative has some fairly intense psychological issues. Some of these psychological issues might have something to do with the narcissistic and exploitive need to recapture one's own youth through another who bears one's genetic likeness . . . or what that older person fancies is his/her genetic likeness.

I'm generally a "live and let live" person. But in this case, I support both the laws and social conventions against incest.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Janet_W. »

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2005, 03:52:21 AM »
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When an older relative becomes sexually involved with a younger relative, it's very possible--to put it mildly--that this older relative has some fairly intense psychological issues. Some of these psychological issues might have something to do with the narcissistic and exploitive need to recapture one's own youth through another who bears one's genetic likeness . . . or what that older person fancies is his/her genetic likeness.

I'm generally a "live and let live" person. But in this case, I support both the laws and social conventions against incest.


Goodness Janet!  I had never thought of it like that.....'the narcissistic and exploitative need to recapture one's genetic likeness'....Fascinating.  I have to say that while I think that it is an amazing story, I can't help feeling for both Maries.  It can't have been easy to have been obliged to recognise that very special relationship that these two men shared, whatever form it took, and that it lasted so long!  I may be wrong but I suspect that Marie O possibly dealt with it better than Marie B.  However after the former's untimely death, I would imagine that if anything, the bond between the two men became even stronger?  Which would have possibly been that bit more difficult for Marie B to contend with.......
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2005, 08:59:37 AM »
Quote
When an older relative becomes sexually involved with a younger relative, it's very possible--to put it mildly--that this older relative has some fairly intense psychological issues. Some of these psychological issues might have something to do with the narcissistic and exploitive need to recapture one's own youth through another who bears one's genetic likeness . . . or what that older person fancies is his/her genetic likeness.

I'm generally a "live and let live" person. But in this case, I support both the laws and social conventions against incest.


I see nothing wrong in uncles marrying nieces, aunts marrying nephews (less common I must add), cousins marrying each other...these alliances were the sort of meddle the royal world was made of.  Some families practiced this endogamy more than others, more in Catholic families (exile, concentration of reduced resources, diplomatic alliances, a reduced number of marriageable candidates), but fascinating nonetheless.

When doing genealogical profiles this is simply wonderful.  Incest does not involve uncles/nieces/aunts/nephews/cousins [sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry (as between a parent and a child) -  
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn].

Would you consider thus the marriage of Carl of Sweden and Ingeborg of Denmark incestuous?  He was her mother's first cousin, which makes his father, Oskar II, both grandfather and great-grandfather of Carl's children?

Arturo Beéche
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Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2005, 09:26:13 AM »
Quote

I see nothing wrong in uncles marrying nieces, aunts marrying nephews (less common I must add), cousins marrying each other...these alliances were the sort of meddle the royal world was made of.  Some families practiced this endogamy more than others, more in Catholic families (exile, concentration of reduced resources, diplomatic alliances, a reduced number of marriageable candidates), but fascinating nonetheless.

When doing genealogical profiles this is simply wonderful.  Incest does not involve uncles/nieces/aunts/nephews/cousins [sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry (as between a parent and a child) -  
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn].

Would you consider thus the marriage of Carl of Sweden and Ingeborg of Denmark incestuous?  He was her mother's first cousin, which makes his father, Oskar II, both grandfather and great-grandfather of Carl's children?

Arturo Beéche



Uncles marrying nieces and aunts marrying nephews? Completely beyond the pale! I can't imagine anyone findiing that acceptable. If it took place it must have been centuries ago. First cousins are a different matter, though I'm a little squeamish there as well.