Author Topic: Amelie von Arenberg  (Read 16171 times)

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Offline Marc

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Amelie von Arenberg
« on: November 30, 2008, 10:19:31 PM »
Doesn't have her own thread...Princess Amelie von Arenberg,born in 1789 and died in 1823...by marriage to Duke Pius in Bayern she herself became Duchess in Bayern and grand-mother of Empress Elisabeth...We don't know nothing about her...In biography of Sissi she is mentioned as just a  mediatized Princess,although equal and related to a lot of prominent Princely families and that's why Habsburgs had second thoughts about one of Ludovika's daughters to became an Empress...

That's all I know about her...never seen any picture of hers!If someone know something more,please post!

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 09:36:27 AM »
Some letters written by Pius August and his father Wilhelm were published in Die Herzöge in Bayern. Von der Pfalz zum Tegernsee. by Hermann von Witzleben and Ilka von Vignau (Prestel, Munich 1976). The addressee of these letters is Duke Max. We learn from these lines that Max was very close to his mother, but as she lived in Bamberg and Max was raised in Munich, they haven't seen each other for years. When Amalie died in 1823, it was a great loss for Max, but not for Pius who lived seperate from his wife and wasn't very devoted to her.

I've never seen a portrait or picture of her. In Witzleben's book I read that there must be a portrait of her in a castle in Landshut, Bavaria. This city isn't far away from where I live, so maybe I can go there on day. Nevertheless, in Bavaria it happens quite often that the people who are responsable for castles don't feel like writing names under the portraits. That's why I could go to Landshut and stand in front of Amalie's portrait without knowing that it's her ...
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline Yseult

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 11:12:51 AM »
Amalie is a very elusive lady!
MarieCharlotte, don´t worry. Go to the castle and if you find a portrait of a beautiful lady you´ve never seen before, just ASK! ;) (I hope it will be enough, dear).

Offline Marc

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 11:15:52 AM »
Very interesting.She also died in Bamberg.I assumed that Max was close to his mother since Sissi's name was Elisabeth AMALIA Eugenia which suggests that it was given to her in honour of her grandmother Herzogin Amalie in Bayern...

Offline Yseult

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 11:22:08 AM »
Very interesting.She also died in Bamberg.I assumed that Max was close to his mother since Sissi's name was Elisabeth AMALIA Eugenia which suggests that it was given to her in honour of her grandmother Herzogin Amalie in Bayern...

I think Maria was named Maria Sophia AMALIA, also. Of course, the name Amalia could have been given to the two sisters in honour of herzogin Amalie, but remember Amalie was also a very traditional femenine name in Ludovika´s family. If I´m not wrong, one half sister of Ludovika was named Auguste AMALIE and one sister of Ludovika was named AMALIE Auguste...

Offline Marc

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 11:35:21 AM »
True,maybe in honour of them alll...From her grandmother Amelie's side Sissi descended from various French and German noble families who were not even souvereign,just noble...even some Italian such as Pignatelli!

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2008, 12:56:30 PM »
True,maybe in honour of them alll...From her grandmother Amelie's side Sissi descended from various French and German noble families who were not even souvereign,just noble...even some Italian such as Pignatelli!

Amalie became an orphan when she was only 6 years old. As she didn't have any siblings, she was her father's sole heiress. In many books she is decribed as a very rich, prosperous woman. Her son Max sold the estates he inherited from his mother and took the money to buy the castles of Possenhofen and Garatshausen.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline Marc

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2008, 05:22:59 PM »
Really,didn't know she was that rich because she was from the collateral branch of Arenberg family...If I remember well,Amalie's father later married Russian Princess Elisabeth Shakhovskoy,so Amalie had half-sister Catherine who died as 2 years old...Her father Prince Louis Marie von Arenberg later got divorced from his second wife and died a year later...maybe that's why his second wife hasn't inherited anything,or she did something?

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2008, 08:22:45 AM »
This is what I found about Amalie Louise in Witzleben's book Die Herzöge in Bayern:

Am 26. Mai 1807 heiratet Pius, der einzige Sohn Wilhelms, in Brüssel die Prinzessin Amalie Luise von Arenberg, die Tochter des Herzogs Ludwig von Arenberg und seiner Frau Adelheid, geborene de Mailly. Herzogin Adelheid war die letzte der Linie der Grafen de Mailly-Nesle, Marquis de Rubempre, Prince d'Orange und soll eine sehr vermögende Frau gewesen sein, ja man schreibt, "eine der reichsten Erbtöchter Frankreichs". Die Eltern Amalie Luises waren früh gestorben; sie wuchs bei Verwandten auf. Wie es zu dieser Heirat kam, entzieht sich leider unserer Kenntnis - vielleicht hatte Wilhelm schon von Düsseldorf aus entsprechende Schritte eingeleitet. Das junge Paar nimmt seinen Wohnsitz in der Residenz zu Bamberg.

Translation:

On 26 May 1807 Pius, Wilhelm's only son, married in Bruxelles Amalie Louise Princess of Arenberg, daughter of Duke Louis of Arenberg and his wife Adelheid, née de Mailly. Duchess Adelheid was the last descended from the line of teh Dukes de Mailly-Nesle, Marquis de Rubempre, Prince d'Orange and is said to have been a very prosperous woman. It is even written that she was "one of the richest heiresses all over France". Amalie Louise's parents died early; sie was raised by relatives. We don't know how this marriage was arranged - maybe Wilhelm took the relevant steps while he lived in Düsseldorf. The young couple took their domicile in Bamberg.

----------------------------------

An ambassador, von Zastrow, wrote the following letter:

Am 3. April ist in Bamberg die Gemahlin des Herzogs Pius, eine geborene Prinzessin von Arenberg, nach langer Krankheit im 34. Lebensjahr gestorben. Es hat die Fürstin seit mehreren Jahren eine sehr unglückliche Existenz gehabt, da ihre Schwiegereltern es ihr beimessen, daß ihr Gemahl sich solchen Ausschweifungen ergeben, die selbst auf seinen Verstand Einfluß gehabt und es notwendig gemacht haben, ihn in Bayreuth gewissermaßen unter Aufsicht zu setzen.

Translation:

On 3 April Duke Pius' wife, a Princess of Arenberg, passed away in Bamberg at the age of 34. She had been ill for quite a long time. The Princess had been very unhappy for years, because her parents-in-law blamed her for the terrible behaviour of her husband, who is mentally  disturbed and is now under medical supervision in Bamberg.

----------------------------------

Two weeks after Amalie Louise's death, Pius wrote this letter to Max:

Bayreuth, den 19ten April 1823
Lieber Max! Ich danke Dir herzlich für Deinen Brief. Auch ich war sehr betroffen, als ich den Tod Deiner Mutter erfuhr; ohngeachtet man schon lange ihrer Auflösung entgegensah. Vorzüglich Dich (sic!) muß ihr Tod sehr nahe gegangen seyn; indem sie Dich so zärtlich liebte. [...]
Lebe wohl, lieber Max, ich verbleibe stets, Dein Dich treu liebender Vater Pius


Translation:

Bayreuth, 19 April 1823
Dear Max! Thanks a lot for your letter. I was affected, too, when I was informed about your mother's death. But we all had to reckon on her death for quite a long time. Especially for you it must have been a great loss, because she loved you so much. [...]
Farewell, beloved Max, I will always be your loving father Pius

----------------------------------

Wilhelm wrote to his grandson:

Bamberg, den 10ten April 1823
Lieber Max! [...] Schon als die Annäherung ihrer letzten Augenblicke sich zeigte, habe ich für die Erfüllung Deines Wunsches gesorgt. Die Büste ist bereits in Arbeit und ihr Verfertiger, um sie noch mehr zu vervollkommnen anheute nach Banz zum Anschauen zweyer dort befindlicher sehr ähnlicher Portraits Deiner seel. Mutter abgegangen. [...]


Translation:

Bamberg, 10 April 1823
Dear Max! [...] Shortly before her death, I made sure that your wish will be realised. The artist already works on the bust. He traveled to Banz today, where he wants to look at two portraits of your mother to make the bust even more perfect. [...]

----------------------------------

Daneben kümmerte er sich um die ausgedehnten Besitzungen im Département Pas de Calais, vor allem in Beaulieu bei Noyon, um die schönen Wälder von Bohain und Beaurevoir bei Saint Quentin und Vitry-le-Francois, die er von seiner Mutter geerbt hatte. Er entschloß sich kurz darauf zum Verkauf dieser Ländereien und erwarb dafür 1834 die Schlösser Possenhofen und Garatshausen am Starnberger See, dann 1838/39 das von der Leyensche Brauhaus in Kühbach, das dortige ehemalige Benediktinerinnenkloster und [...] Schloß Unterwittelsbach.

Translation

Besides, he cared about his huge estates in the Département Pas de Calais, above all in Beaulieu near Noyon, about the beautiful woods of Bohain and Beaurevoir near Saint Quentin and Vitry-le-Francois, he inherited from his mother. He decided to sell these estates and bought the castles of Possenhofen and Garatshausen at Lake Starnberg in 1834, then in 1838/39 he bought a brewery - possessed by a family called von der Leyen - and a monastery in Kühbach [...] and the castle of Unterwittelsbach.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 08:26:02 AM by MarieCharlotte »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline Marc

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 09:22:10 AM »
So,he bought quite a lot of castles from his mothers inheritance...well,at least we know that there are two portraits of her!Marie Charlotte,thank you for those articles...if you find something more,please post!

Offline Jose II

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 12:16:48 PM »
"Bayreuth, 19 April 1823
Dear Max! Thanks a lot for your letter. I was affected, too, when I was informed about your mother's death. But we all had to reckon on her death for quite a long time. Especially for you it must have been a great loss, because she loved you so much. [...]
Farewell, beloved Max, I will always be your loving father Pius"

Were Pius and Amelie living separated, or did it just happened that he was staying in Bayreuth at the time of his wife's death ?

I visited both Landshut and Bayreuth many years ago. Pity that I did not look for Amélie's portrait then ...

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 12:58:52 PM »
Were Pius and Amelie living separated, or did it just happened that he was staying in Bayreuth at the time of his wife's death ?

I think that Pius lived seperate from his wife Amalie Louise, but it seems that both of them had their main residence in Bamberg. At the time of Amalie's death, Pius was under medical supervision in Bamberg because of his strange behaviour. One day he visited some kind of pub and provoked a fight. Some jewish men were critically hurt.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Rani

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 01:30:17 PM »


Amalie of Arenberg

Offline beladona

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 03:29:50 PM »
Nice picture, Rani, but I think it cannot be Amalia of Arenberg. She was born in 1789 but the clothing of woman on the picture is around 1760...Could it be picture of her mother?

Rani

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Re: Amelie von Arenberg
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 03:43:04 PM »
Nice picture, Rani, but I think it cannot be Amalia of Arenberg. She was born in 1789 but the clothing of woman on the picture is around 1760...Could it be picture of her mother?

I saw it in an auction. It could be the very young Amalie. But I can´t compare it with an another pic of her, there is no one :(