Author Topic: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters  (Read 18091 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Svetabel

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
    • View Profile
    • http://svetabella.livejournal.com/
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2010, 01:55:49 AM »
Svetabel, Could you give us the exact references of the book, I would like to read and have it, if only I can find it. Is there anything in the letters about the relationship beetwen Ioann Konstantinovitch and Elisabeth Feodorovna?
It is interesting that Ioann's brother Konstantin also pretended to Olga Nicholaevna's hand...

Seems to me any Romanov of Olga N.'s age pretended to her hand : ).

The book with Ioann's letters is almanach "Russian Archive". I pm'd you the references.

Offline Inok Nikolai

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 475
  • Irkutsk, Russia 1977
    • View Profile
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2012, 05:42:12 PM »
1)
In her letter to Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna, of February 6/19, 1918, written from Tobolsk, Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna informs her that:

"...Elena [Princess Elena Petrovna of Serbia] occasionally writes.  She said that Marya and Gulia [Prince S. M. Putiatin and his wife, Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, the Younger]  are going to have a little one, and Aunt Mavra [Grand Duchess Elizabeth Mavrikievna] announced that 'Ioanchik' [Prince John Constantinovich] was made a subdeacon, and it seems will proceed further in clerical rank. He is terribly pleased, but his wife does not approve. I can understand how she must feel. It seems to me that to be a priest’s wife, a matushka, would not be very merry." 

******************

2)
As most of you know, in the Orthodox Church, the parish clergy — deacons and priests — are married. Monks and bishops take a vow of celibacy.
So the fact that Pr. John was married would not have been an impediment to his being ordained a priest.

3)
Then, in July 2008, a Russian priest posted this intriguing excerpt on a Yahoo Group that discusses church matters.

 "Addendum to Tserkovnie Vedomosti, No. 708, March 2/15, 1918, p. 329:

"On March 3, in the St. John Convent on Karpovka [where St. John of Kronstadt is buried in St. Petersburg], during the Divine Liturgy, Prince Ioann Konstantinovich was ordained to the Diaconate. On the following Sunday he was elevated to the rank of priest.”

"Ioann Konstantinovitch is married to the Montenegrin Princess Elena Petrovna, whom he is divorcing, accepting monastic tonsure, and will become, as is expected, elevated to the rank of bishop."

*******************

Of course, Pr. Elena was Serbian, not Montenegrin, and it is highly unlikely that Pr. John was planning to divorce her in order to become a bishop — after all, they still had small children.

Which leaves us all wondering: Is the first part of this announcement, placed in the official publication of the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church, accurate?

It seems odd that neither of Prince John's sisters, Abbess Tamara and Pr. Vera, ever mentioned that their martyred brother was a priest. But, then again, Prince John's wife and mother are cited by Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna as her source for this information.

The priest who originally posted that excerpt in 2008 asked for confirmation or futher details from anyone who might know more about this matter, but, to this day, it doesn't seem that anyone has come forward to add to the tale.

инок Николай

Offline Inok Nikolai

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 475
  • Irkutsk, Russia 1977
    • View Profile
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2012, 08:21:03 AM »

 "Addendum to Tserkovnie Vedomosti, No. 708, March 2/15, 1918, p. 329:

"On March 3, in the St. John Convent on Karpovka [where St. John of Kronstadt is buried in St. Petersburg], during the Divine Liturgy, Prince Ioann Konstantinovich was ordained to the Diaconate. On the following Sunday he was elevated to the rank of priest.”

"Ioann Konstantinovitch is married to the Montenegrin Princess Elena Petrovna, whom he is divorcing, accepting monastic tonsure, and will become, as is expected, elevated to the rank of bishop."


PS: I forgot to say:

I trust that that Russian priest copied the above citation correctly, but still it would be good to see a copy of the actual entry. So far I have not been able to locate a copy of that issue of Tserkovnie Vedomosti — either printed or on line. Owing to the Revolution and civil war perhaps not many copies made it abroad. If any of our readers in Russia, or abroad, is able to furnish a copy of that issue of T. V., it would be most appreciated.
инок Николай

Offline Nikl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2013, 04:03:34 AM »
Could somebody please tell me, who is infant sister Natalia?

...when Stana attended exams of Gavriil and Ioann in Livadia and then brought them at first news of their infant sister Natalia's birth and then her death ...

Offline Svetabel

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
    • View Profile
    • http://svetabella.livejournal.com/
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2013, 09:21:21 AM »
Could somebody please tell me, who is infant sister Natalia?

...when Stana attended exams of Gavriil and Ioann in Livadia and then brought them at first news of their infant sister Natalia's birth and then her death ...

The second daughter of GD Konstantin K., she was born in 1905 and died the same year.

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2013, 10:14:54 AM »
What a wonderful thread, thank you for starting it. I always had a soft spot for Ioann and  Elena . While everyone is laughing, Ioann and  Elena of Serbia had the last laugh because  they  knew great  happiness together.

Sometimes  shyness is hiding an ardent heart . From what you have posted, we know  Ioann had a lifetime of tenderness stored up to give by the time of his marriage . Though  arranged  they made  their marriage their own.  It is a  powerful love story  set in a time of  great tragedy  and I hope it's written  about fully some day.

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Nikl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2013, 12:05:50 PM »
Could somebody please tell me, who is infant sister Natalia?

...when Stana attended exams of Gavriil and Ioann in Livadia and then brought them at first news of their infant sister Natalia's birth and then her death ...

The second daughter of GD Konstantin K., she was born in 1905 and died the same year.
Thank you very much for your quik answer :)

Offline Grandoffsky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 03:15:13 AM »
Starting my journey on this forum by trying to revive an ancient thread. Anyway, my question is whether there are any letters to and by Prince Ioann regarding the assassination of his Uncle GD Serge Alexandrovich in 1905? I know I have read letters on the subject exchanged between K.R. and his son Prince Gavriil, and, if I remember correctly (I can't find the letters anymore), there was a reference to a letter to Prince Ioann as well.

ETA: Or, if there are any other references to GD Serge Alexandrovich, it would be very interesting to find out.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 03:20:25 AM by Grandoffsky »

Offline Svetabel

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
    • View Profile
    • http://svetabella.livejournal.com/
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2018, 03:51:04 AM »
Prince Ioann discussed the assasination of GD Sergei in the letters with his father and sister Tatiana. The correspondence has been published recently in Russian in a serie of books on the family of GD Konstantin K.  The book on Ioann's correspondebce is :

http://minuvshee.com/knyaz_ioann_k_1886-1918

Offline Grandoffsky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2018, 03:59:00 AM »
Prince Ioann discussed the assasination of GD Sergei in the letters with his father and sister Tatiana. The correspondence has been published recently in Russian in a serie of books on the family of GD Konstantin K.  The book on Ioann's correspondebce is :

http://minuvshee.com/knyaz_ioann_k_1886-1918

Thank You very much for the link, I have been considering buying some of the books of the Konstantinovichi series for some time now and seems that it's about time. I have already found his letters to his father and mother around the time, and I know that he mentioned there that he wrote in detail about how he found out about the assassination to his sister Tatiana.

Offline Joanna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1271
  • Winter Palace Research
    • View Profile
    • Winter Palace Research
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2018, 08:05:43 PM »
my question is whether there are any letters to and by Prince Ioann regarding the assassination of his Uncle GD Serge Alexandrovich in 1905?

This is the only letter I could find by Prince John to his father regarding Sergei's death. He was living and studying in Livadia during this time.

Livadia.  March 13, 1905
My dear Dad!
... Firstly, I thank you very much for the calendar and sincerely ask you to forgive me for not responding for a long time.  Secondly, dear Uncle Sergei!  I think a lot about You this time.  Did you see the parts of the body that remained of him or not?  (I skip the question of who you learned about the demise, because you already wrote).  I write to You, because I know how You loved the deceased and then to pour out my soul for repentance.  Uncle's death made a great impression on me.  Let me, please, skip the fact, how we found out about it, because I write about it in detail to Tuske...

Joanna



Offline Grandoffsky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch (1886-1918) - letters
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2018, 04:09:21 AM »
my question is whether there are any letters to and by Prince Ioann regarding the assassination of his Uncle GD Serge Alexandrovich in 1905?

This is the only letter I could find by Prince John to his father regarding Sergei's death. He was living and studying in Livadia during this time.

Livadia.  March 13, 1905
My dear Dad!
... Firstly, I thank you very much for the calendar and sincerely ask you to forgive me for not responding for a long time.  Secondly, dear Uncle Sergei!  I think a lot about You this time.  Did you see the parts of the body that remained of him or not?  (I skip the question of who you learned about the demise, because you already wrote).  I write to You, because I know how You loved the deceased and then to pour out my soul for repentance.  Uncle's death made a great impression on me.  Let me, please, skip the fact, how we found out about it, because I write about it in detail to Tuske...

Joanna

Thank You very much. So I wonder if this Tuska (Туська) is his sister Tatiana?

I have been doing some research on this (as much as internet lets me) and in addition to the letter you so kindly posted, there is also a letter from Ioann to his mother (or both parents) from 20th February 1905.
 
(which I found here :
http://www.runivers.ru/new_htmlreader/?book=5607&chapter=84148).

Does anyone know if Ioann's mentioned letter to Tatiana is in the book Svetabel mentioned? I would love to read it.