Author Topic: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC  (Read 163020 times)

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Offline Sanochka

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #315 on: May 06, 2013, 04:30:40 AM »
Hopefully, the victims were too much in shock for anything to register after the firing began.  We've had 95 to contemplate what it must have been like for the victims.  But on the night in question, events in the cellar room may have happened too fast for the minds of the victims to process. 

Personally, I've been subject to a few physically traumatic events.  I fell four floors when I was 16 and was hit by a Chevy Suburban doing 35 mph while crossing a street and thrown 30 feet when I was 38.  Mercifully, I recovered completely from both incidents.  But in each instance, there was only an initial flash of recognition that something terrible was happening to me before I blacked out and wasn't aware of anything - even pain. 

When I read gruesome details about the murder of the IF, I always hope that this was the case for each of them.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #316 on: May 06, 2013, 06:57:16 AM »
This is a good point. When one reads people's accounts of road accidents and the like, they very often say that they don't remember much about it.

My own nearest miss was being run off with by a horse when I was 10. As is not unusual, he headed for the stable, which involved galoping full pelt for about 150 yards, then going up a ramp which was inclined to be slippery. He slipped on the ramp and came down (fortunately, because beyond the ramp was a busy road!). What I remember was being unable to stop him, wondering what was going to happen when we reached the road (that was worrying!), then the horse slipping, and me rolling on the ground alongside him. I don't remember hitting the ground, or any particular pain. I was very lucky, not least because I wasn't wearing a riding hat (nothing like as protective as the modern kind anyway). I got up, the horse got up, and everyone was more worried about him than me!

I hope it all happened for the Imperial Family and servants to register what was happening, at any rate the ones who were killed outright.

Ann

Offline KaiserinIII

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #317 on: December 15, 2013, 04:49:35 PM »
What suprises me is in all the accounts of the Romanov's death i have never heard of nicholas doing anything about Alix, what i mean is no "My Love!" or, "I love you!".
I just thought about it, and it made me sad.  :-/ :'(

Considering "what? what?" were Nicholas's last words, I think he was too much in shock to do anything. I'm sure if he had his wits about him he might have said that. Or he might have said "Spare my family!" or something along those lines. Most of the men were gunning for Nicholas as it was, so he was in no position to defend his family. We also have to keep in mind that Alix met a quick end with a bullet to the face, so it's not like he could have protected her as it was.   

Offline rosieposie

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #318 on: December 19, 2013, 05:36:28 AM »
I haven't read this thread in ages,  when something is going to happen be it a car accident, being attacked (hit into), rape  or murdered,  the victim/s there is a since of something drastic is going to happen.   

I have a feeling they might have suspected something,  any normal person would have questioned mentally why they were going to be getting their photo taken in a basement in the middle of the night, if they were going to be moved on at such quick notice.    It was understandable if they were told "We are going to be moving you on tonight as it is getting to dangerous,  the conflicts outside of town is to close and  it is best to put your safety first."   There would not have been much panic. 

However with being told they were going to have a photograph taken at that time of night, in a dim lit basement to "prove" they were still alive,  it would have raised suspicion.  Was it not easier to take photographs during the day time because the source of light is enough for a decent photograph.   I think no one wanted to voice their concerns about having their photograph taken at short notice,  they were surrounded by men with guns.    I think they knew,  something horrific was going to happen.

I read it was Olga or Tatiana who said "Forgive them for they do not know what they do."     

No one had the chance to say anything,  the initial shock would have prevented them from saying "Goodbye or I love you".    Who knows they might have said something to each other before they left the second floor.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #319 on: December 19, 2013, 09:10:07 AM »
The story about them being told a photo would be taken is most probably a myth that grew out of Radzinsky's speculations. I've not been able to uncover any references to the photography scenario prior to Radzinsky's proposal of it in The Last Tsar.
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Offline Lady Macduff

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #320 on: December 19, 2013, 09:44:49 AM »
I agree with Sarah. The fact that Yurovksy used to be a photographer has led some scholars to the conclusion, "Well, all the ingredients are there so it MUST have happened." That kind of logic is dangerous; it's the same type of thinking that feeds speculation that the grand duchesses were raped.

One of the major flaws in The Romanovs: An Imperial Family is that while it remains the best, most accurate film we have about the family's captivity, it asserts that they were in fact told they were going to be photographed.
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Offline edubs31

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #321 on: December 19, 2013, 12:06:38 PM »
It's hard know for certain, but I'm not so sure their suspicions would have been raised, at least not until the moment guards began filling into the room.

I think the fact alone that they had been in captivity for some sixteen months probably led them to falsely assume no mass execution was likely. I could see a conversation the night or two before their murders having gone something like this...

Olga: I'm afraid they're going to kill us all.
Tatiana: Don't be ridiculous!
Olga: Well why not?
Tatiana: We've been held prisoner for sixteen months. If someone wanted us dead don't you think they would have done so already? Why wait any longer? They could have ended us all while we were still in Tobolsk.
Olga: I don't know...But I'm sure we'll never see Tsarskoe Selo again.
Tatiana: Perhaps not. But we'll live abroad. We have family all over Europe. I just pray they don't send us to Germany or Papa to Moscow first.
Olga (sigh): Yes I suppose you're right.
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Offline Kassafrass

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #322 on: December 22, 2013, 02:07:46 AM »
There is a rumor going around that there are photos of the family after their execution. One of them is circling Tumblr and you can view it here:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/d9cbea82538d2d4d0e59318e764292da/tumblr_muboqyQ3zU1s2r21zo1_1280.png

It seems unlikely to me, but I was wondering what other members thought
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #323 on: December 22, 2013, 03:24:19 AM »
Haven't seen that before. Looks like it is from a movie or something like that.

Offline rosieposie

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #324 on: December 22, 2013, 04:48:48 AM »
Looks to be from a movie or doco re-enactment.    Don't forget some of these people got shot in the face/head.  Which would have shattered their faces.   Even the clothes look to "clean" for people that had been bayonetted etc.
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Offline KarinK

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #325 on: December 22, 2013, 05:20:10 AM »
That is a screencap from Last Days of the Last Tsar, a Russian documentary that has the most extensive dramatisations of the murder and burial that I've seen. It also includes a brief dramatisation of the Alapaevsk murders. Wikipedia has a photo of the bodies of Ella and Ioann that I think is legitimate since their remains were discovered but I haven't wanted to look at it closely. I doubt the Tsar's family was photographed: it all became more chaotic than the killers had originally planned and they had plenty of urgent problems to deal with, and the story seems to have developed as an urban myth rather than something that can be traced to an early twentieth-century source. Perhaps it ends up in movies like The Romanovs because it has a kind of dramatic appeal: one last photograph of the much-photographed family that's known for iconic images like Anastasia in court dress or the 1913 formal photos.

Offline Kassafrass

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #326 on: December 22, 2013, 01:32:12 PM »
Karin - I wouldn't look at those photos too closely if you're bothered by graphic and gruesome things. Ella wasn't recognizable in the photo and it wasn't a pretty sight...

I found it to be highly unlikely that a photo would be taken of the family after their death as it was all a big secret for a while. With the way they hid the bodies out there and tried to destroy two of them, you would think that they wouldn't want to have photographic evidence of it.
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Offline Romanov_Fan19

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #327 on: May 03, 2016, 12:14:40 PM »
sigh  I Hate even discussing this,  But I Had a thought ,  if they had been   taken  one at a time  like   "a  special  train  will  take you  , but only one at a time".    that way they wouldn't have had to watch their  loved ones suffer

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #328 on: May 06, 2016, 05:01:16 AM »
sigh  I Hate even discussing this,  But I Had a thought ,  if they had been   taken  one at a time  like   "a  special  train  will  take you  , but only one at a time".    that way they wouldn't have had to watch their  loved ones suffer

Maybe , but I think that may have aroused deep suspicions in the prisoners  , resulting in a situation that Yurovsky may have had difficulty controlling. Remember the familys reaction to the boy Sednev leaving earlier in the day ; it shows they weren't afraid of confronting Yurovsky when they were feeling suspicious/upset/fearful .
I think Yurovsky thought he had got it exactly right  ;  night time - plausible excuse to wake them and keep them calm - basement - plenty of shooters - over in two minutes with minimum suffering for the victims . The bloody chaos that followed was exactly what he had hoped to avoid.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Execution details: who died how, in what order, etc. GRAPHIC
« Reply #329 on: May 06, 2016, 07:51:47 AM »
Bear in mind that Yurovsky's intention was not to minimise suffering to the prisoners, but trouble to himself and his men.

Ann