Author Topic: Alexandra and her Health Part 1  (Read 210084 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #120 on: January 16, 2005, 06:23:15 PM »
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Well there's conflict & conflict...
Oh, Bluetoria, you haven't yet seen Conflict  ;)  Anyway, let's stay on course here  :D

bluetoria

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #121 on: January 16, 2005, 06:32:39 PM »
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Oh, Bluetoria, you haven't yet seen Conflict  ;)  Anyway, let's stay on course here  :D


(See I can do this quoting now! :)) I don't want to avoid conflict, just unnecessary conflict! Debates & discussions are really good, but if we learn anything at all from the Romanovs it ought to be that through talking rationally things can be resolved without resorting to pettiness & insults...don't you think! It's v. late here in England & I have to go to work tomorrow...got to go! :)  

Dashkova

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #122 on: January 16, 2005, 06:35:13 PM »
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No, her shyness, or whatever it was, didn't come from being the Tsarina, it was there long before that. But this is what a disorder is, when something enters the realm of "extreme" and starts interfering with one's every day life. So if her shyness was so extreme that it got to a point that it infrindged on her life, which certainly seemed to be the case often, then yes it would have been considered a psychological disorder. If Alix lived in the 20/21 century, she would have gotten therapy (hopefully) and probably some drugs and she would be more or less fine and would be able to function "normally". Back then this wasn't available of course, so she consciously or sub- looked for other things to try to alleviate her symptoms, and yes I would say Rasputin was one of those things. Her disorder, because it was left untreated for many years, seems to have manifested in other ways, hence many "imaginary" or real health problems starting at a young age. Again, this is all speculation on my part, of course I wouldn't know enough to say anything for sure. It just kind of sounds that this may have been the case...


I think she would have benefitted enormously from hysteria treatments. Seriously!

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #123 on: January 16, 2005, 06:35:26 PM »
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Debates & discussions are really good, but if we learn anything at all from the Romanovs it ought to be that through talking rationally things can be resolved without resorting to pettiness & insults...don't you think!
Yes, I agree!  :)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #124 on: January 16, 2005, 06:38:30 PM »
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I think she would have benefitted enormously from hysteria treatments. Seriously!


Perhaps  ;)   But for the long term or, hopefully, permanent solution, therapy and meds  :).  Poor Alexandra, if she only knew what's being said about her, she wouldn't like it one bit... :o  ;)

rskkiya

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #125 on: January 16, 2005, 08:19:56 PM »
Ok
A Question...
   Do you think that Alixandra would have consented to a "talking cure," and if so, do you think that she would have prefered Adler, Reich, Jung or Freud?

I would guess "no" but had she agreed she may have chosen Jung...any opinions?

rskkiya

Offline Dasha

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #126 on: January 16, 2005, 10:45:22 PM »
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Ok
A Question...
    Do you think that Alixandra would have consented to a "talking cure," and if so, do you think that she would have prefered Adler, Reich, Jung or Freud?

I would guess "no" but had she agreed she may have chosen Jung...any opinions?

rskkiya


Rskkiya, great question.  I honestly don't see her consenting to any type of talking treatment.  She was a private person who didn't want anyone to know what was really going on with her.  The only people who had any idea of what was really the matter were her close family (husband and and possibly some of her siblings), Rasputin, and maybe Vyrubova.  I highly doubt that she divulged her feelings to anyone else.  Now, I do believe that she didn't really like to be "fussed" over, so an individual therapy session would most likely annoy her as well.  However, the main issue would be divulging private thoughts and feelings to a person with whom she was not close.  

I'm not at all familiar with all the psychologists that you named, but I highly doubt that she would have been all too happy to see Dr Freud.  His ideas and interpretations would have probably appalled her.  That is not to say that she was a prude (not in private with her husband anyway), but I believe some of Dr. Freud's ideas and conclusions would have been well out of her own preceptions on what is "propper" and what isn't.

Well, there are my two cents or kopeks on the topic.  
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Offline Sarai

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #127 on: January 17, 2005, 07:59:10 AM »
I think she would have benefitted from talking therapy. I believe it was in 1915 that she went to Maria Pavolvna Sr.  to vent about her problems, how she was misunderstood, how stressed she felt about the whole situation, etc. Maria's family was very pleased she went to speak with them, as they felt they better understood her after that talk. They felt she had a lot on her mind and in her heart that she just needed to talk to someone about. I'm surprised she chose Maria to talk to, seeing as how they were not the best of friends, so I think if she could approach her then she may have been open to talking to a therapist.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #128 on: January 17, 2005, 10:19:06 AM »
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I think she would have benefitted from talking therapy.
 Yes, I agree. And I think she may have been open to it, although I am really not sure which of the four psychology philosophies rsskyia mentioned she would have wanted to subscribe to!  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

rskkiya

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #129 on: January 17, 2005, 11:19:52 AM »
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I was not and am not putting words in your mouth!

You did write "as did many women at that time in Europe" without making clear that you were referring to Freud's research. Saying that Alix might have benefited from a talking cure with Freud, Jung or Reich didn't make clear the basis of your statement.

No, you did not mention "millions" or "hundreds of thousands of people". But you DID say something about "women in Europe". Then, isn't it clear to you that you were making a statement about millions of women? If you meant that only a few hundred of those millions of women had had symptoms of "hysteria", the qualification "many" was totally wrong. By using the word "many"  you clearly suggested that much more women than just a few hundred suffered from those symptoms. If you say "many", you can only have meant thousands and thousands and thousands of women at the least.  

Freud did his research in Germany. Why did you generalize the results of his research to Europe? And why only to Europe?

You may not know what he thought or knew about the situation in America, but that is totally irrelevant in this context. In your orginal message you didn't even mention Freud's research, so you canNOT expect people to interpret your message as if you had mentioned his research as the basis of your statement.  >:(  

Helen
Please reread my post...I did menton Freud. You seem to have misunderstood a great deal of my post!
"I drink many cups of tea in the morning" that means 6-8 cups,not 'hundreds of thousands or millions" OK. :-/

Sorry but this is really silly!
rskkiya

Back to the topic
Freud, Adler, Jung and Reich were all Psychoanalysts at the turn of the century. Many people are familiar with Carl Jung and his works on Dreams Religion and Mythology, and it's for this reason that IF Alix had agreed, she might have enjoyed discussing eastern philosophy with him.
Freud and Reich were a wee bit more focused on sex as a significant factor in behaviour - she may not have felt comfortable with them. (PS: Its been centuries since I took my "Intro to Psychology" class-- so please forgive any "gittering generalities" that I might have made!)

I don't think that Alix would have been openminded enough to consider the "talking cure" as it was then called then.  Of course we will never know!

rskkiya
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #130 on: January 17, 2005, 01:56:21 PM »
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I don't think Alix would have been in for talking therapy, simply because she never would have trusted this "therapist" to keep his or her mouth shut.

 This is true too. Perhaps it could have been someone from the spiritual/religious field, who may have been trained in this. I think she would trust someone like this much more than just a secular therapist.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #131 on: January 17, 2005, 02:35:39 PM »
She would have talked to her Confessor about whatever was troubling her soul. If he was a good one, he would have been able to direct the Confession to get at deep seated problems. And of course the confession is completely confidential, as the Confession is to God - the Priest is a witness. (For those unfamiliar with Orthodoxy, we don't confess hidden from the Priest - it is not an anonymous confession.)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #132 on: January 17, 2005, 02:39:16 PM »
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She would have talked to her Confessor about whatever was troubling her soul. If he was a good one, he would have been able to direct the Confession to get at deep seated problems.


Yes, this is what I meant. Hopefully her confessor would have been a good one, who was trained in such things. But then again, many therapists are not very good, so it is a hit and miss no matter how you look at it.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #133 on: January 17, 2005, 03:39:32 PM »
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then again, many therapists are not very good, so it is a hit and miss no matter how you look at it


That is so very true. And also a therapist or a confessor might be just right for one person, and completely the wrong person for another.

rskkiya

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Re: Alexandra and her Health
« Reply #134 on: January 17, 2005, 04:39:56 PM »
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I don't think Alix would have been in for talking therapy, simply because she never would have trusted this "therapist" to keep his or her mouth shut.



Sigh  :-/

Helen
This is true --I agree that Alix would not have trusted a therapist, even though such therapists would have an obligation to keep all discussions private

I suppose that's the core problem -- Alix seems to have had some serious "trust" issues.