Author Topic: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne  (Read 9437 times)

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Offline belianis

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Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« on: January 13, 2009, 03:14:33 PM »
Who follows after the children of the children of Juan Carlos and Sofia?

Offline Tybalt

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 06:14:15 AM »
Hi!
  Happy New Year!
          I suppose the duke of Calabria and his children (all the other children and descendants of Alfonso XIII had renounced the throne because of inequal marriages) . The new constitution has changed this but only from 1978.

Offline umigon

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2009, 09:29:50 AM »
After Juan Carlos's grandchildren the next in line of succession would be Infanta Pilar and her descendants, followed by Infanta Margarita and hers. I don't think the Constitution has recognised any other persons entitled to succession rights. However, if for whatever causes all these people disappeared, I guess the Spanish Crown would have to be inherited by other descendants of Alfonso XIII. If these would be don Jaime's, doņa Beatriz's or don Leandro's descendants, that is indeed unclear...
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Offline Tybalt

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Offline umigon

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 11:32:11 AM »

The renunciation of Infantas Pilar and Margarita were previous to the Constitution of 1978 and so they would not be valid if they decided to push forward their rights. If they had not rights because of their morganatic marriages then Juan Carlos's children would also had to be excluded.
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Offline REMI

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 08:40:27 AM »

The renunciation of Infantas Pilar and Margarita were previous to the Constitution of 1978 and so they would not be valid if they decided to push forward their rights. If they had not rights because of their morganatic marriages then Juan Carlos's children would also had to be excluded.

Then, can Luis Alfonso de Borbon y Martinez Bordiu  decide to push forward his rights too?

REMI

Offline Yseult

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 12:31:02 PM »

The renunciation of Infantas Pilar and Margarita were previous to the Constitution of 1978 and so they would not be valid if they decided to push forward their rights. If they had not rights because of their morganatic marriages then Juan Carlos's children would also had to be excluded.

Umigon, this time I donīt agree with you ;)
From a merely dinastic point of view, I suppose that Pilar and Margarita made renunciation of their rights because their father, don Juan, at this moment the chief of the family, didnīt wish to change the rules which were running since a few centuries. It was BEFORE Juan Carlos reign and before the Constitution of 1970. We can apply the new rules with the start of Juan Carlos reign and after th Constitution 1970, not before...

Offline umigon

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 04:14:55 AM »


I know what you mean, Yseult, but still, I don't think Spain would recognise a private renunciation done within the Royal Family. If Pilar and Margarita wished to push their rights forward in the eventuality of all Juan Carlos's descendants dying, I'm sure the laws of Spain would give them coverage...

About Luis Alfonso, that's a difficult issue. I've always thought don Jaime's renunciation was not legal (as it wasn't approved by the Cortes), but he then married semi-morganatically and don Alfonso's marriage was nothing else but morganatic. So, as the Spanish monarchy we have now is Franco's creation, old rules should not apply to the monarchy, so whether Jaime's renunciation was valid or not, Juan Carlos is true king of Spain (obviously). But, if all the line descending from don Juan should run out (impossible, I believe)... yeah, I think Luis Alfonso would have a chance.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 09:55:02 AM »

There is no official succession list to the throne. The constitution refers to Juan Carlos'successors. 
Pilar and Margarita and their children are not in line to the throne at all.   It is assumed that the Duke of Calabria follows Cristina's daughter Irene.
After Juan Carlos's grandchildren the next in line of succession would be Infanta Pilar and her descendants, followed by Infanta Margarita and hers. I don't think the Constitution has recognised any other persons entitled to succession rights. However, if for whatever causes all these people disappeared, I guess the Spanish Crown would have to be inherited by other descendants of Alfonso XIII. If these would be don Jaime's, doņa Beatriz's or don Leandro's descendants, that is indeed unclear...
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 09:57:39 AM »
Morganatic marriages no longer exist in Spain ... however, Pilar and Margarita are officially excluded as dynasts (and their children)   This was accepted at the time of the new consitution, and acknowledged by the court and by the Infantas. They and their children are considered members of the King's family but not the royal family, even though Pilar and Margarita retained their titles.




I know what you mean, Yseult, but still, I don't think Spain would recognise a private renunciation done within the Royal Family. If Pilar and Margarita wished to push their rights forward in the eventuality of all Juan Carlos's descendants dying, I'm sure the laws of Spain would give them coverage...

About Luis Alfonso, that's a difficult issue. I've always thought don Jaime's renunciation was not legal (as it wasn't approved by the Cortes), but he then married semi-morganatically and don Alfonso's marriage was nothing else but morganatic. So, as the Spanish monarchy we have now is Franco's creation, old rules should not apply to the monarchy, so whether Jaime's renunciation was valid or not, Juan Carlos is true king of Spain (obviously). But, if all the line descending from don Juan should run out (impossible, I believe)... yeah, I think Luis Alfonso would have a chance.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
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Offline beladona

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 03:10:38 PM »
Morganatic marriages no longer exist in Spain ...

Itīs strange, that morganatic marriages do not exist in Spain, but exist (or existed?) in "spanish" branches of Orleans and Bavarian families...

Offline Marlene

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Re: Line of Succession to the Spanish Throne
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 02:43:28 PM »

I used the words no longer exists ...Beatriz, Maria Cristina, Alfonso, Jaime, Pilar and Margarita are all out because of their marriages. 
Morganatic marriages no longer exist in Spain ...

Itīs strange, that morganatic marriages do not exist in Spain, but exist (or existed?) in "spanish" branches of Orleans and Bavarian families...
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