Author Topic: Madame Becker's Visit  (Read 26551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline imperial angel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2009, 04:10:41 PM »
Thanks. I haven't read the Olga diary book I'll admit. I was getting my info on the morphine from the new Helen Rappaport book on the Romanovs, p. 21, for reference. But Rappaport uses the word '' resisted'', that they resisted using it and doesn't say they never administered it, just that they apparntly tried not to, if they didn't have to. I thought she meant that they never administered it. It's hard to know if the girls used such medicines for cramps or not. Certainly, morphine and the like were thought to be helpful more than harmful back in the day.

Offline EmmyLee

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2009, 04:52:47 PM »
I really wish I had Raegan's book so I could read through it too. Maybe Interlibrary Loan will bring it in for me.  :)

Offline Olga Maria

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2125
  • 1 Corinthians 13, Mark 11: 23-24, Romans 8: 38-39
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2009, 07:25:41 AM »
Olga's so good to take note of her periods. She may be doing it to take heed of her monthly schedule.

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3723
  • Fortuna vitrea est; tum cum splendet frangitur
    • View Profile
    • *Glitter Of The Past*
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2009, 03:57:06 PM »
I would never imagine that there is information about that topics, because in that time wasn't
very common to talk about it. So interesting topic. About using drugs for menstrual pain, one day I read
that Queen Victoria used cannabis for control the pain, but I'm not sure, of course, in that time
it was considered as medicine, not a drug.
Russia cannot be grasped with the mind, or measured in feet and inches, for she has a special character: In Russia one can only believe. ~Fyodor Tyutchev.

Offline RHB

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 194
  • Four Sisters Always Remembered
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2009, 04:02:13 AM »
"Maria bellowing" made me laugh.  Usually we know her as a sweet angel kind of girl, and me picturing her being like that made me laugh. hehe
Yeah i know every time i read that about her all i can think of is the same thing, sweet kind angelic and not seeming to be one for yelling or such... and then i read (i think the first time was Wikipedia on her page) about her bellowing and all I can think of is "no way i so can not see her doing that uh uh!" but then again i guess we'll never really know now will we?
<-- GDAndrea

Live and Die together!

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2009, 02:50:10 PM »
Maria was a powerful person in many ways ...physically very strong  and I can see the others,
particularly Anastasia ,  saying she " bellows!" when she shouts. It would just come out strongly..the girl can't help it! lol!

There comes a point in a young royal woman's life where Madame Becker's visits are of more importance
than Monsieur Gilliard's lessons. When Olga takes note of Madame B., in a way, she is being about her business.
 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Holly

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • www.otma.org
    • View Profile
    • otmaa.org
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2009, 03:57:00 PM »
"Maria bellowing" made me laugh.  Usually we know her as a sweet angel kind of girl, and me picturing her being like that made me laugh. hehe
Yeah i know every time i read that about her all i can think of is the same thing, sweet kind angelic and not seeming to be one for yelling or such... and then i read (i think the first time was Wikipedia on her page) about her bellowing and all I can think of is "no way i so can not see her doing that uh uh!" but then again i guess we'll never really know now will we?

Well, I think the real reason you (and others) get this impression is because so many people seem to put Olga, Tatiana, Maria, and Anastasia (sometimes Alexei too but not to this extent) into these strange categories. Olga is the bookish, stubborn, rebellious one. Tatiana is dutiful, religious, practical. Maria is romantic, angelic, and sweet. Anastasia is impish, charming, and clever. It's almost like a stereotype. Any time there's an example of them being the opposite you express shock or surprise. It's as if you don't think of them as real human beings with faults and differences in behavior. Of course you can't see Maria yelling in your mind because the only adjectives you've ever put to her name are the ones that are 'sweet' and 'angelic'. No one is always stuck to a short list of qualities. Don't you know that Maria Nicholaievna could be the most stubborn of all the children at times? Did you know that Tatiana once stuck her tongue out at the people? Did you know that Anastasia wasn't always all laughter?
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

Offline Ally Kumari

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3065
    • View Profile
    • Imperial Russia
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2009, 05:10:33 PM »
Holly is absolutely right. I´m affraid that especially under the influece of sometimes rather inaccurate and "childish" websites especially the younger members here get the impression of the Grand Duchesses fulfilling only the one known model. Mostly people talk about their distictive character features as if those were the only qualities they had. They were all much more colourful in behaviour and views than most of people can imagine. "Obstinate" Maria, who always "knew what she wanted and why she wanted it" is the very same person as the "angelic" one. And IMO it makes her much more interesting.

Offline Holly

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • www.otma.org
    • View Profile
    • otmaa.org
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2009, 10:04:21 AM »
Well said, Ally. I completely agree. I wasn't going to mention it but it does seem to be the more immature that get this idea. They view the family as completely static, super-human characters and not as people who changeable and horribly flawed just like ourselves.  I know when I was 12-13 years old I also had this way of thinking but that left me quickly after I learned more about them. It really does make the person much more interesting.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

Offline Jessamy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2009, 08:20:39 AM »
I can totally imagine Maria "bellowing"  not only from being visited by Bekker, but being taunted by her sisters as well.  My daughters are like that, if they know one is moody sometimes it's fun to tease her as she gets so riled up, especially as she is not like that normally.

Offline Russka Princess

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
  • I Love the Romanovs,Battenbergs,Hesse Family
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2009, 02:43:36 PM »
i wonder what they has to stop the blood. I mean today we have Ob´s and always  and such thinks.

What they taked OTMA and Alix ?  a big rag ? i imange it was terrible, if they has it while a Ceromony or a ball.


One Family, One History, One Home, One Place in our hearts! <3

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2009, 03:45:00 PM »
i wonder what they has to stop the blood. I mean today we have Ob´s and always  and such thinks.

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed in the past. Do some searching around, perhaps on the Their World and Culture boards.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Helen

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
Re: Madame Becker's Visit
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2014, 05:54:30 PM »
At the request of a friend, I would like to share the following information received from this friend:

     It does not seem to have anything to do with Toni Becker-Bracht.
     http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=219.msg391655#msg391655
 
     Nor does there necessarily have to have been a concrete “Madame” Bekker.
     http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=12434.msg379733#msg379733
 
     Unfortunately, lacking the texts of the Empress’ earlier letters, we cannot know when precisely she first began to use that term.
 
     And recall that in the Empress’ letters to Tsar Nicholas II during WW I, the first term she used was “engineer-mechanic”.
     (The term “Bekker” occurs only later in the correspondence.) Eventually both terms were used interchangeably.

     [Note that Russian employs two nouns, joined by a hyphen (engineer-mechanic), where English uses a noun modified by an adjective (mechanical engineer)].
 
     Well, it turns out that there was a real “engineer-mechanic” named Bekker:
     Naval officer, Alexander Alfredovich von Bekker (1879-1920), Captain Second Class, mechanical engineer on the destroyer “Voskovoi”.
     He later served on the imperial launches and cutters which ferried the Imperial family and its guests between Peterhof and the imperial yachts anchored further offshore.
     Thus he was well known to the Imperial family.
 
     It does seem a bit far-fetched, but perhaps the origin of that term has something to do with him. But, if so, why or how?
 
     Of course, all of this is only a conjecture. We may never know for certain.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 06:07:30 PM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"