Author Topic: Coded signature in wartime letters?  (Read 23719 times)

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Offline nena

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2009, 07:57:19 AM »
I agree, I am not aware of cyrillic version of 'Q', nor 'Y, W', as you mentioned, Carisbrooke. At least not in Serbian cyrillic. Those letters don't exist in written form here and in Russia.I am trying to figure out what that means, but no success. ЗСГ would it sound. But what if letteres are not written in proper order? It complicates things. Could those letters be initials of name, patronymic and surname of an admirer, for example? Am just sayin'.
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Offline Carisbrooke

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2009, 07:05:02 AM »
As to why OTMA or any part of it would be sent holly, I was thinking along the lines of informing the recipient, in this case the tzar, who was present at the time of writing. I'm sure he would have been interested.

The letters are signed ANR (we think), so why not use the acronym as well, and yes nena I too think these are names. We know the family talked in code, medicines, otma, our friend, baby, etc, so why not take this one step further. What better way to do this than use the good old fashioned ceasar cypher which was much in vogue round that era.

I take all points on board about the cyrillic, though I should think all the siblings could dip in & out of their various languages taking whatever suited them. Thats including transposition of letters from one alphabet to another.

I find this this a very interesting thread, and its nice to see everyone pitching in with all their various ideas. I hope mine do not sound too outlandish.

Offline Carisbrooke

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2009, 07:20:08 AM »
I have tried every combination looking for more significant letters, but can only find an extra N. This again comes from the -6 shift, using the letter T. Not exactly earth shattering you may think, though it does now spell out N-TMA. (See the last message, TKZSG=N-TMA). I would like to put forward the case that KZSG could be OTMA. Here is the evidence so far to support the theory, as I see it.

1/   KZSG is part caesar cipher or shift cipher. The name of caesar alone will possibly set alarm bells ringing.

2/   Just as ANR starts every code, KZSG or part of it is there at the end.

3/   Like OTMA, KZSG is always in sequence even when it has letters missing. This is a habit even most forum members tend to do, putting the girls in their correct order.

4/   The chances of ZSG appearing as TMA by accident are pretty remote. 2 letters together yes, 3 together maybe, 3 together and in sequence......very doubtful.

Then there is that extra N to add into the equation, which could be important. Of course it all doesn't work in cyrillic, and I cannot prove KZSG=OTMA. But at this moment in time I wouldn't bet against it.             

Offline Antonina

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2010, 04:41:30 AM »
http://www.chernosvitov.narod.ru/romanova.html
Strange but here Anastasia's signature is reproduced as Анлез.сг.(Anlez.sg. - 02.12.1914) and Анрез.с.г. (Anrez.s.g. - 23.09.1914, АНРПЗСГ in "Sisters of Mercy"). I think her  handwriting wasn't very legible. May we use this version, too?

Since the Russian alphabet has 33 letters, it probably doesn't work out.
Well, before 1918 it had 35 letters:
А а   Б б   В в   Г г   Д д   Е е   Ж ж
З з   И и   І і   К к   Л л   М м   Н н
О о   П п   Р р   С с   Т т   У у   Ф ф
Х х   Ц ц   Ч ч   Ш ш   Щ щ   Ъ ъ   Ы ы
Ь ь   Ѣ ѣ   Э э   Ю ю   Я я   Ѳ ѳ   Ѵ ѵ
 Also here OTMA version doesn't work. I doubt AN used any difficult cipher, I think this signsture is a simple acronym, but maybe it could be helpfull...
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Offline Carisbrooke

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2010, 07:15:47 AM »
   I think its a neat idea & we are open to all offers, but my knowledge of russian is zero, so I could not say. I think she is toying with her father, "here you are sort this one out papa" and in the long run she's toying with us, & consequently leading me to a nervous breakdown.

Offline Holly

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2010, 10:59:30 AM »
I don't think her handwriting is very hard to read. Tatiana's definitely can be difficult. I'm certain it was a simple acronym for another one of her 'titles' she made for herself. I don't think she would've went to all this trouble to think of some cryptic, difficult code. If this is causing you a nervous breakdown, you are thinking into it way too much...

"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Carisbrooke

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2010, 01:51:00 AM »
   Regarding the alphabet change in 1918 I had totally forgoten about this event, Though as antonina points out it makes no difference anyway. Even so I will stand by my #32 post just for now, at least until something better turns up.

   Going slightly off thread, wouldn't this problem have been a great way to test all these pretenders over the years. After all, only the genuine article would have known the key to the mystery.   

Offline Carisbrooke

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Re: Coded signature in wartime letters?
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2013, 02:05:38 AM »
THE NOTMA CODE CAESAR CIPHER, PART OF CODE 8, TKZSG=NOTMA ?

NICHOLAS/OLGA ?/TATIANA/MARIA/ANASTASIA

Just like the cryptex in the Da Vinci Code there are 12 million possibilities to this problem. Even to have four letters matching is a staggering half a million to one chance, yet by applying the simplest of codes, (the caesar=tzar) N_TMA appears. One final coincidence is, the last three letters have an undoubtable encryption code of 666. Now I wonder who that could be referring to ?  ;)

MORE ACCURATE FIGURES ARE -
5 letters correct = 11,881,376 to 1
4 letters correct = 456,976 to 1