Author Topic: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II  (Read 203820 times)

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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #435 on: February 09, 2011, 06:47:30 PM »
  Re "Naslednik" and your post # 434:  Thanks for your thoughts/impressions re the "Nicholas II/M. Loubet" recording.  Who REALLY knows?  There is even controversy about the authenticity/assignment of the "Nicholas II" recording thanking his troops ("Brothers") for a good military review/maneuvers.  
  I regret that I am late in responding to your kind questions of your post # 433.  To answer:  Yes, Williamsburg, Virginia (USA) is "canned" (or "scripted"), but the vast majority of such sites are, of necessity I suppose.  I have visited Gettysburg, Pennsylvania (USA) a number of times, but prefer Williamsburg as that time period/era is more closely aligned with my interests.
  As to "bells":  Yes, one can hear bells at a number of places in Russia.  I think the bells of the Moscow Kremlin are quite distinctive. To me, excepting the deeper tones, they have always seemed to produce a rather "silvery" sound, a bit higher pitched than one would first expect.
  I certainly hope that you will get to travel to Russia to see for yourself places such as the Yaroslavl Oblast. Also when there, try to visit the city of Uglich, an interesting place in its own right, especially relative to the early demise (murder?) of the young Prince Dmitri Ivanovich.
                                   With best wishes to you and yours for the New Year,    AP.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 07:00:27 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Alixz

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #436 on: February 10, 2011, 10:11:34 AM »
Of course the "historical" sites in the US and other places are "canned".  Would one truly think that people, except for the Amish, actually live in the 18th or 19th century?  And of course, the Amish are not an historical site, their way of life should be respected not gawked at.

I have been to both Williamsburg, VA and Gettysburg, too.  I have also been to "Od Sturbridge Village" In Massachusetts.  The people at these places are "actors" and employees of the National Park Service.

My husband was interested in joining the drum corps that plays at Williamsburg.  He found that the members are college students who volunteer for the job.  He was disappointed as he would have liked to be a part of an organization that gets to play historical music for a living.

These places are very much like the "reenactors" the people who reenact battles from the Revolution and the Civil War.  If you go to Gettysburg over the weekend of July 4, you will find the streets crowded by those reenactors in 19th century dress who are there for the anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg.  It is an amazing sight.  They stay in costume day and night for four days.

Offline Naslednik

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #437 on: February 10, 2011, 09:28:37 PM »
Yes, I've seen re-enactors at Gettysburg: medical corps re-enactors!  They educated us about anesthesia, amputation, etc.  But this is off topic.

I mention 'canned' not in the obvious sense, people dressed up playing the part of another era.  What I mean is something slightly closer to a thin veil of unintended propaganda.  I am so moved at Gettysburg each time I visit, but the message they convey is sometimes canned: the North was fighting to end slavery.  But I know the average Union soldier was not risking his life to end the inequality of slavery.  So I leave this historical site with deep emotions, but aware that I have witnessed some 21st century spin.

I cannot imagine how hard it would be to have a palace display of the IF and avoid the problem of 'spin.'  Each one of us has such different opinions on Nicholas and Alexandra, and future historians may never reconcile all the controversies of propaganda, gossip, suppressed publication and martyrdom.  A wise Curator might just label items for what they are: uniform, chair, toy, and leave the interpretation to the individual.

Alixz

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #438 on: February 12, 2011, 08:42:41 AM »
I agree that we have strayed off topic.

I also agree that if one does more that tour the battlefield at Gettysburg, then one will be exposed to "spin".

I would be very difficult to have a "living" memorial to the Romanovs - for example have actors dress up and sign the abdication agreement five times a day (or something like that).

But back to Nicholas and his personal attributes and the always controversial tattoo!

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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The Tsar's Speech
« Reply #439 on: February 28, 2011, 06:39:21 PM »
lso, if you hear Nicholas say l'Armee Russe, he rolls his R on that one word, Russe, but not on the other Rs he speaks, which are Parisian, as Fyodor Petrovich mentioned.  That makes sense!  You can imagine a Tsar not wanting to say the name of his own country with a foreign accent!
I doubt it's intentional, it's probably just interference from his native Russian, possibly because the word is so similar to the Russian one.

I would also say this little slip is a proof that it is actually NII speaking and not some "voice-over". Why would the Frenchman doing the voice-over make this little slip (I doubt somebody had written down NII's speech phonetically to aid him in recreating it!), when the rolled r's of Loubet are ample proof that a French audience would not consider a rolled r as a specific Russian trait that could be added for "Russianness".

On the other hand, if the audience at these speeches was more educated, it is possible Nicholas might have spoken French.
NII was adressing the president first and foremost. All the other officers also understood French. And they all cared very little about what the simple soldiers understood of this high-flying diplomatic exchange.

Regarding children who can't roll their r's and use a uvular one instead: In Russian this is known as "kartavitz" and was seen as a typical Jewish trait, wasn't it?
It's one of the most common speech impediments. But the story that the French adopted the uvular r because of fawning courtiers imitating Louis XIV's speech impediment is probably just an urban legend. Just like President Loubet, [lə rwa sɔ.lɛj] probably rolled his r's. As aleksandr pavlovich noted the uvular r's "home" is on both sides of the Pyrenees, where it has co-existed with the uvular r for ages, with complementary distribution. It was only when it spread northwards after the Middle Ages that there appeared varities in which the uvular r was the only r sound.

I don't know how common this speech impediment is in speakers of varities of English, where an alveolar tap or approximant are the most common r's.

For instance, I can't for the life of me pronounce "Myshkin" in Russian because the "y" doesn't get processed in my brain well enough to know how to move my lips, throat and tongue.  Trying to think in French or English doesn't help me.  I end up saying either "Mishkin" or "Mooshkin" and my Russian friends laugh that I'm calling a Dostoyevsky hero Prince Mouse or Prince Bear.
And the correct pronunciation of Мышкин is ['m ʷi ʂ kʲ ɨ n], or?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 07:03:20 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline bestfriendsgirl

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #440 on: May 16, 2011, 05:00:57 PM »
From all the photos of Nicholas II I've seen, he appears to have rather large feet for as small as he was. Has anyone else noticed this?

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #441 on: May 16, 2011, 11:24:01 PM »
From all the photos of Nicholas II I've seen, he appears to have rather large feet for as small as he was. Has anyone else noticed this?


Yes! That's true! I didn't saw Maria Fyodorovna's feet, but maybe she had big feets too. Nicholas had almost the same physical features than his mother.

RealAnastasia.

Offline dvoynik_nikolay

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #442 on: December 22, 2011, 12:48:30 PM »
From all the photos of Nicholas II I've seen, he appears to have rather large feet for as small as he was. Has anyone else noticed this?

From all the photos of Nicholas II I've seen, he appears to have rather large feet for as small as he was. Has anyone else noticed this?


Yes! That's true! I didn't saw Maria Fyodorovna's feet, but maybe she had big feets too. Nicholas had almost the same physical features than his mother.

RealAnastasia.

For such statements are necessary facts, based on measurements. It was just for you to do. For these purposes, there is a huge number of photos. The proportions of the body is easily measured by investigators from the photos. But you have not already done so. Therefore, your statement should be classified as intentional unsubstantiated vilification Nicholas II.  Why are you doing?






Offline bestfriendsgirl

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #443 on: December 22, 2011, 06:47:57 PM »
Vilification? Sheesh!  ::) I was just making a casual observation!

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #444 on: December 23, 2011, 06:08:24 AM »
It's hardly vilification to suggest that someone has big feet for his size! In any event, the size of feet varies quite a bit and is not necessarily proportionate to overall size. I am 5ft 6 and in theory take a UK size 6. I say in theory because I have very wide feet and need 7s or even 8s to get shoes that are wide enough. My brother (5ft 11) takes 7s, while my 'chap' (5ft 8) takes 9s. An acquaintance of mine who is a mere 4ft 10 takes 4s, but sometimes 6s, as she also has wide feet.

Ann

Alixz

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #445 on: December 23, 2011, 01:27:32 PM »
Good grief!

Much ado about nothing.

Offline historyfan

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #446 on: December 23, 2011, 05:43:36 PM »
Wonder if Nicholas himself would've taken such offense?  ; )

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #447 on: December 23, 2011, 06:09:01 PM »
It would have been extremely de classe  if not lese majeste to even  mention such a thing.  One does not comment on another's physical appearance except in  positive ways [flattery]. Otherwise, it is rude and shows lack of breeding.
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Offline bestfriendsgirl

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #448 on: December 23, 2011, 07:26:14 PM »
I guess no one ever, ever mentioned Nicholas' height, then ...  ;)

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« Reply #449 on: December 23, 2011, 07:31:09 PM »
Not to him, they would not.
 That is why this whole topic is so silly. It is something that just not would have been said.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.