Author Topic: Possible brides for QV's sons  (Read 19884 times)

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Offline Gabriella

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2012, 04:33:32 PM »
Here are some pictures of Thyra of Denmark and Olga Konstantinova eventually Queen Olga of Greece:

Thyra as young woman:




the elder Thyra:


with her sister-in-law Queen Olga of Greece:


Olga as young girl:


with her mother:


with her husband George I. of Greece:


the elder Olga:

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2012, 05:39:18 PM »
Here are some pictures of Fredericka ('Lily') of Hanover:




Offline DssofBelem

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2012, 01:34:24 PM »
Thank you all for the photos! Thyra is very pretty, Olga & Lily have beautiful eyes. Surely it was hard for their suitors to choose!

Offline DssofBelem

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2012, 07:39:26 PM »
I have always found it strange that Princess Helena was so much against Leopold marrying Caroline Mathilde "Calma" of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg. I don't understand why.

Why was she against? Calma seems to be a very sweet lady and more lively than her plain sister Dona.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2012, 08:00:07 AM »
Could it be that Queen Victoria was opposed to Arthur marrying Thyra because she had a child by an equerry in 1871?

Ann

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2012, 11:28:16 AM »
Could it be that Queen Victoria was opposed to Arthur marrying Thyra because she had a child by an equerry in 1871?

Ann

I thought Queen Victoria had decided that the Danish connection was too complicated - Princess Alexandra was vehemently anti-German following the Schleswig-Holstein problems which annoyed the Queen and she believed another Danish princess at court would have followed her lead, creating too much pro- and anti-German camps within the royal family.  She also disliked Queen Louise of Denmark extremely, thinking her an intriguing woman.  There is no evidence that a word of Thyra's pregnancy ever got out beyond her immediate family and that of her eventual husband, as it would surely have affected Queen Victoria's view of Thyra herself, who if anything she rather liked. 

Offline DNAgenie

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2012, 08:05:11 PM »
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Could it be that Queen Victoria was opposed to Arthur marrying Thyra because she had a child by an equerry in 1871?
Ann

I thought Queen Victoria had decided that the Danish connection was too complicated - Princess Alexandra was vehemently anti-German following the Schleswig-Holstein problems which annoyed the Queen and she believed another Danish princess at court would have followed her lead, creating too much pro- and anti-German camps within the royal family.  She also disliked Queen Louise of Denmark extremely, thinking her an intriguing woman.  There is no evidence that a word of Thyra's pregnancy ever got out beyond her immediate family and that of her eventual husband, as it would surely have affected Queen Victoria's view of Thyra herself, who if anything she rather liked. 

I don't think QV would have been too upset about Thyra having given birth to an illegitimate daughter. I'm sure the Queen knew all about it - she always knew all the gossip in the European royal families and I think there were some veiled references in her letters to Vicky about that time.  She was not a prude, and as long as it stayed secret and didn't cause a public scandal that would have been OK.  As Kalafrana says, QV liked Thyra, but had other reasons for disliking the marriage to Arthur.   

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2012, 01:21:31 AM »
'I don't think QV would have been too upset about Thyra having given birth to an illegitimate daughter.'

Oh, I don't know. Women having illegitimate children was something that verged on depravity in Victorian Britain. It was possible for a upper-class woman who was already married to get away with having a child that was not her husband's, provided the husband was prepared to accept it, but not a child wholly outside marriage. My paternal grandmother married her first husband in 1906, three months before the birth of her first child, and was considered practically a fallen woman by her family thereafter. By the time my father arrived in 1928, my grandmother had been widowed and married again, but as a boy he picked up a sense that his mother still wasn't considered 'quite the thing' by some of the relations!

Ann

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2012, 03:28:17 PM »
Arthur himself soured on the idea after meeting Thyra again after several years. I think she had just been ill and was not looking all that wonderful. I'm sure it was a relief to Queen Victoria who probably would've gone along with whomever her favorite son had chosen provided he felt strongly enough about it.

Just as a side note/reminder--please limit photos to 3-4 per post. It can cause some computers to load slowly or perhaps not even display the photos otherwise. Thanks. : )
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2012, 01:09:21 AM »
How did Arthur come to marry Louise of Prussia. Did the Empress Frederick (as she became) do some matchmaking?

Ann

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2012, 02:32:11 PM »
How did Arthur come to marry Louise of Prussia. Did the Empress Frederick (as she became) do some matchmaking?
Ann

Queen Victoria had her suspicions - "How is it that Louise should become in a few days so attached to Arthur?  Did you and Charlotte not beforehand sing his praises to her?  What I regret is that no one gave me a hint of this as I had so particularly wished Arthur to see others before he engaged himself to anyone".  While it seems certain that the Crown Princess (as she was) was fond of Louise, who she considered to be "by far the icest most sensible and nice of Marianne's girls, the only one who is intimate with our children......and quite brought up by an excellent English governess, a Miss Jackson" and would certainly have made sure that Arthur had opportunities to meet her in Berlin, it was actually QV herself, according to Noble Frankland in his biography of Arthur, who sent Arthur to Berlin as the representative of the British royal family to the marriage of Princess Charlotte, albeit with stern warnings.  Arthur wrote to his mother before he left London, that "I have no wish to be married at present & I quite agree with you that a Prussian Princess would be unadvisable."  However, upon meeting her at dinner three days later, Arthur immediately informed his mother that he thought her "rather pretty" and six days after that, they entered privately into an engagement, subject to the consent of QV.  While the Crown Princess would have been very pleased at the outcome, it does appear as if Arthur was the one who made the running, as while it was likely that Louise would have been disposed to fall in love with a man who was the brother of the Crown Princess who had been very kind to her, and who could take her away from her bullying father and unhappy home, Arthur was primed to resist the "unadvisable" match and he must have had a very strong attraction to Louise.  Though I've always wondered if this was one of the few forms of rebellion Arthur ever made!

Offline Marc

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2012, 05:07:27 PM »
Thank you very much for clearing that up. :-)

I have always found it strange that Princess Helena was so much against Leopold marrying Caroline Mathilde "Calma" of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg. I don't understand why.

Any more details please? :)

Offline eejm

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2012, 10:39:52 PM »
Thank you very much for clearing that up. :-)

I have always found it strange that Princess Helena was so much against Leopold marrying Caroline Mathilde "Calma" of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg. I don't understand why.

Any more details please? :)

Calma was Prince Christian's niece.  After her father's death in 1878, Christian was Calma's guardian, so Leopold should have easily gained his brother-in-law's blessing to marry her.  However, Helena and Christian began to speak of Calma's father forbidding the marriage before his death, although no mention of a union between the two had come about until after his death.  Most likely, Helena and Christian were concerned about Leopold's precarious health and the likelihood that he'd leave Calma a widow. 

As it turned out, Leopold did leave his wife a very young widow, but I'm sure it was really hurtful for him to be turned down for Calma by his own sister and brother in law.  Leopold's son eventually married one of Calma's daughters.

Offline Marc

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2012, 11:26:43 AM »
Thank you very much for clearing that up. :-)

I have always found it strange that Princess Helena was so much against Leopold marrying Caroline Mathilde "Calma" of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg. I don't understand why.

Any more details please? :)

Calma was Prince Christian's niece.  After her father's death in 1878, Christian was Calma's guardian, so Leopold should have easily gained his brother-in-law's blessing to marry her.  However, Helena and Christian began to speak of Calma's father forbidding the marriage before his death, although no mention of a union between the two had come about until after his death.  Most likely, Helena and Christian were concerned about Leopold's precarious health and the likelihood that he'd leave Calma a widow. 

As it turned out, Leopold did leave his wife a very young widow, but I'm sure it was really hurtful for him to be turned down for Calma by his own sister and brother in law.  Leopold's son eventually married one of Calma's daughters.

So,that(protection) was the reason...didn't know,thnx.It's interesting about the union of their children...anybody know if this marriage(Charles and Viktoria-Adelheid) was sort of love match or just another arranged marriage to fulfill something their parents did not have the chance?

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Possible brides for QV's sons
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2012, 09:31:46 AM »
Quote
It's interesting about the union of their children...anybody know if this marriage(Charles and Viktoria-Adelheid) was sort of love match or just another arranged marriage to fulfill something their parents did not have the chance?

In 'Twelve years at the Imperial German Court', the rather cynical Count Robert von Zedlitz-Trutzschler wrote on the 7th February 1905 that "..the engagement of the Prince of Coburg to Princess Alexandra [sic]of Schleswig Holstein was announced.  The bridal pair look very attractive and rather give the impression of two children.  There is no doubt that the Duke has for some time been in love with the little Princess, but none the less, he was rather serious after the engagement.  The mother-in-law, however, was beaming, and the Empress was very happy.  But the truth is that, to put in good homely language, the little Duke has been caught."  It's never made clear why von Zedlitz-Trutzschler wrote the last sentence, though perhaps it was because he considered Charles too young to have really made his mind up (he was 20); there is no doubt that the Empress favoured a marriage with her neice and would certainly have ensured they had opportunities to get to know one another better.  However, there seemed no coercion involved and his sister Alice wrote firmly that it "was a happy marriage" and he "led a full and happy family life..."  He had had an unhappy time at the German court as he was the butt of much bullying by the Kaiser Wilhelm II, so his marriage and family life might have seemed a pleasant respite.