Author Topic: Olga's crushes: Pavel Voronov, Dmitri Shakh-Bagov, Nikolai, N.P., AKSH, dear S, etc.  (Read 147822 times)

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Offline Lanie

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Here's a little tidbit I found in one of my books, The Last Tsar and Tsarina by Virginia Cowles: ... that it terrified her to think 'that the time was drawing near when I shall have to part with my daughters.  I could desire nothing better than that they should remain in Russia after their marriage.  But I have four daughters and this is impossible.'  Then the book says Alexandra felt it her duty 'to leave my daughters free to marry according to their inclination'.  To me that sounds like it sort of cancels out what was said before about having four daughters, it'd be impossible to keep them in Russia, blah blah, but wanting them to marry to their own inclination...  All from pg 141 of this book.

It makes me think that they probably would have been married off to foreign princes, etc., but not without love or affection I think--they had seen their mother and father's example.

Offline AGRBear

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"Also,  was there ever any talk about whom her mother and father wanted Olga to marry?"

Yes. If I am not mistaken, the Imperial Family visited Romania (someone else, I hope, can confirm the year of this visit) as there was murmurs that Olga may marry the Crown Prince of Romania. Olga, however, was not impressed with him and her parents did not press her.


True there was a war going on and marriage of Olga was placed on the so-called  "back burner" but does anyone else out there have the same feeling as I that Alexandra wouldn't have pushed any man toward Olga or any of her daughters.... In fact, I think it highly probable, that  Alexandra may have made sure that Paul Woronoff was aware that a marriage with Olga wasn't in his future.  

Was there anyone else who caught Olga's attention?

I bet there was / is a list of possible suitors who would have been acceptable to her station in life...

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Janet_W.

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Regarding "an early infatuation," as the index for A Life Long Passion terms it, a letter from Alix to Marie written on December 6, 1910 mentions that Marie must remember she is "a little Grand Duchess." Or, to quote the entire sentence: "I know he likes you as a little sister and would like to help you not to care too much, because he knows you, a little Grand Duchess, must not care for him so."

Early on, then, Alexandra was gently reminding her girls that they must not let their feelings for various "crushes" go too far . . .

Offline jackie3

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Outside of Voronov we know there were (unsubstantiated as far as I know) rumors linking Olga with GD Dmitri, the totally unsuitable marriage proposal (probably pushed by Miechen) by GD Boris, the failed attempt at an alliance with Crown Prince Carol of Rumania and if I remember right one of the Greek Princes (was it Christopher?) became so enchanted with Olga that he asked Nicholas for her hand in marriage, to which Nicholas replied she was too young.

All in all Olga seems to have had more suitors who were suitable rank-wise than her more "beautiful" (to some) sister Tatiana. This could be though because Olga was the oldest and N&A would have wanted her married first before the others.

Offline bookworm8571

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I've read biographies that suggest Olga was in love with Grand Duke Dimitri Pavlovich, who lived in the same household with them for a time. He'd certainly have been an acceptable choice for her in terms of rank. But maybe her veiled references to Dimitris in her letters were to one of the soldiers instead?

From the photographic evidence it looks like the girls had ample opportunity to flirt, dance, and play tennis with handsome young officers on their yacht and had the usual crushes and broken hearts. It makes them sound more human in a way. Too bad they didn't have a chance to live out their natural lives with one of them.

Offline Dasha

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"Also,  was there ever any talk about whom her mother and father wanted Olga to marry?"

Yes. If I am not mistaken, the Imperial Family visited Romania (someone else, I hope, can confirm the year of this visit) as there was murmurs that Olga may marry the Crown Prince of Romania. Olga, however, was not impressed with him and her parents did not press her.


I believe the year of the visit to Romania was 1914.  I may be wrong, so I apologize in advance.

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Offline BeenaBobba

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I think it says something for Olga's character that she wished Voronov and Olga K. happiness despite her personal feelings.  That's really hard to do.  She must have loved him, although not necessarily in the romantic sense.

God bless,

Jennifer

Offline Guinastasia

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The Serbian Crown Prince Regent Aleksandar was supposed to have been in love with her-from what I gather, he wanted to propose, but WWI broke out before he could get a chance.

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Offline Alexa

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Years ago (and I mean "years," probably 15 or so) I read in a book that there had been some thought, albeit not serious thought, of Olga marrying her second cousin, the future Edward VIII.  Has anyone else heard anything about this?  I've often thought of how different history might have been if these 2 had married (although I doubt it would have been a happy marriage).

Alexa

Offline jackie3

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I forget the details but didn't one of the Greek Princes (Christopher?) fall in love (or infatuation?) with Olga and ask Nicholas permission to marry her only to be refused because she was "too young" (although shortly after the Tsar did entertain the Romanian overtures for a marriage)?. I remember reading this somewhere.


Offline matushka

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In 1913 Olga was in love in Pavel Voronov, officer of the standart. A marriage with an other Olga was quiclky organized, ans Olga Nicolaevna sufferred of that. I will give you link with photo of Olga N. with him tomorrow. Mitia might be Dimitri Malama, wounder that Olga and Tatiana had help. It was saying Tatiana loved him, but who know... In a letter to Nicolas II, Alexandra Feodorovna wrote: he will be a very good husband, what a pitty princes ar not as him. I am sorry for my english, I read all in russian. Photo of Malama  I have seen, but can not remenber where.

Offline matushka

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See this photo of Olga Nicolaevna with lieutenant Pavel Voronov, from the russian archives
http://www.rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/bal/75.shtml

Offline grandduchessella

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In 1913 Olga was in love in Pavel Voronov, officer of the standart. A marriage with an other Olga was quiclky organized, ans Olga Nicolaevna sufferred of that.


There was a bit about ON and PV from the N&A exhibit catalog. It notes that Olga referred to him as 'My S.' or 'Dear S.' which made use of the first letter of a gender-neutral word. It's also possible it refers to fact he was an officer on the Standart. Many of her diary entries from 1913-1914 refer to him:

14 Oct 1913: (referring to a charity ball at Livadia) 'I also saw my S. once during the quadrille, our encounter was strange somehow, a bit sad, I don't know.' It appears that , as much as seeing him brought her happiness, it was tempered with the knowledge that a match was impossible.

She made note of every day she didn't spend with him:
'So wretched without S., terrible' that she felt 'empty without him' and that she felt 'sad' when she didn't see him.

When she did see him her mood was transformed: 'I was terribly happy to see him, I sat on deck until dinner, and at last my beloved S. came'. She was 'too happy, terribly happy' to see him once more.

When he was sick she wrote 'My S. does not feel well, my poor little Sunshine. Save him, O Lord!'

Much has been deciphered about his identity by making careful comparisons between NII's diaries (in which he noted everyone he came across that day) and Olga's. It would become apparent in later diary entries as well.

The authors of the essay in the catalog seem to feel her feelings were reciprocated noting the 'joy which appeared on his face whenever he met Olga, or his constant invitations to her to dance.' Also that he was aware of her feelings (ON: 'My tender darling smiled' and 'my dear sweet friend rejoiced'). Both of them seem aware of the hopelessness of a future together though.

It was the notation in her diaries that seem to indicate that Nov-early Dec 1913 were the happiest days of her life. She was distressed though that during her stay in the Crimea, he was always with the Kleinmichaels. It isn't sure wheter PV engagement to Olga Kleinmichael (maid of honor to AF) was undertaken by PV to put a decisive end to the hopeless relationship or arranged by N&A to separate them and avoid further heartache as well as gossip. Olga K and Paul liked each other well-enough and her mother was given the sign that N&A wouldn't object to a match.

If the beginning of the month was a happy one for ON, the latter half was bitter and her diaries take a sad turn: 'I learned that S. is to marry Olga Klenmichael. May the Lord grant happiness to him, my beloved. It is painful and sad. May he be happy.' I think this shows a remarkable character--a young girl, just 18, in the midst of a strong first love wishing her beloved happiness and showing kindness to OK. As the eldest daughter of the Czar, she probably could've used her position to cause difficulty if she'd been of a different personality and moral character.

By Jan she was extremely depressed. Unknowingly Anna Vyrubova and Olga's sisters compounded her misery by speaking of the engaged pair and the upcoming wedding. '...With her [Ella] were Count (ess?) Kleinmichael, Olga and S. but not mine!' (The authors take this to mean that she meant Happiness, but not mine? ) 'My heart aches, it's painful, I don't feel well and slept only for an hour and a half...'

At the wedding, the Tsar and his entire family (including Olga) were present. This is the last time Olga would refer directly to the identity of 'S'. 'At 2 o'clock, S. arrived...At about 2:30, the three of us [also there was Sandro] set out with Papa and Mama. We drove to the regimental church for the wedding of P.A. Woronoff and O.K. Kleinmichael. May the Lord grant them happiness.' The 2 would rarely see each other again as directly after the wedding, Paul was granted a 2-mo leave and then assigned to the Imperial yacht Alexandria. Then came WW1 and Revolution.

Olga still wrote of him though, her diary her only confidant. 'Saw S! Thanks be to God!'

Paul would serve in WW1 and escape Russia, along with his wife, in 1920, leaving on a British steamer from Novorossiisk. He died in 1964 and is buried in Jordanville, New York. His wife would teach Russian at Manhattanville College, Purchase, NY where one the authors was her student.
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Offline matushka

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Thank you. I have read the same from russian sources. It is possible that "S" in "my S" mean "moe sokrovishe", in english "my treasure". Well, it was the supposition of author of this russian article (with the same quotation of ON diary). Do you like this marvellous photo of ON and PV together?