Author Topic: Title and surname of the Greek Kings  (Read 36045 times)

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Offline dmitri

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #150 on: August 11, 2007, 10:32:31 PM »
de Grecia = of Greece ... it is a very clever way of dealing with the situation

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #151 on: August 11, 2007, 11:23:15 PM »
Yes like the German Royal Familes ending with Von Hesse or Von Hannover... ???

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2007, 05:55:32 AM »
I stumbled across this just now and I almost fell of my chair.(Yes again!)
Official confirmation from the Danish Prime Ministers office that the Kings of Denmark, and their family, does NOT HAVE A SURNAME.




« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 02:36:48 AM by Svetabel »
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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2007, 05:58:16 AM »
That should settle it, dont you think?
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #154 on: October 15, 2007, 06:16:37 AM »
That should settle it, dont you think?

Yep!It does for the RF and us,but what am I to do with Egalité now?....... :-\ ::)
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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #155 on: October 15, 2007, 07:13:42 AM »
Give him the Danish Prime Minister's address and phone number!
:)
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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #156 on: October 15, 2007, 07:24:31 AM »
This proves to all and sundry that there is NO SURNAME.
It is written by the then assistant private secretary of H.M The Queen of Denmark to H.M The King of The Greeks.(that was his official title by the way, not King of Greece).
You will notice that the first two words are hand written and they are "Your Majesty."
All we have to do now is settle the Tatoi issue.
:)
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
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Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline carl fraley

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #157 on: August 13, 2008, 01:19:31 AM »
King of the Hellenes means "King of the Greeks", whereas, the king's children would be just prince(ess) of the country, Greece (and of course Denmark). Although, I don't know if this same rule applies for another countries with a constitutional monarchy.
Would it be--
Queen of the British or just UK?
King of the Norwegians/Swedes/Danes? (I know they're not the same country anymore, but you get the idea).
And was Kaiser Wilhelm II Emperor of the Germans or just 'of Germany'?

It is Queen/King of Britain/United Kingdom, Norway, Sweden, Denmark.

The Kaiser was Emperor of Germany, King of Prussia.

What I am wondering is, is it right to call the Crown Princely Couple - Crown Prince Paul/Pavlos of the Hellenes or should it be of Greece? Same goes for CPss Marie Chantal.

I think it is alright to call the King and Queen ''of Greece'' for short in informal situations.





The Kaiser was the GERMAN Emperor not Kaiser of Germany (Emperor of Germany)

The title "German Emperor" was carefully chosen by Bismarck after discussion until (and after) the day of the proclamation. Wilhelm accepted this title grudgingly as he would have preferred "Emperor of Germany" which, however, was unacceptable to the federated monarchs, and would also have signalled a claim to lands outside of his reign (Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg etc.). The title "Emperor of the Germans", as proposed in 1848, was ruled out as he considered himself chosen "by the grace of God", not by the people as in a democratic republic.


Offline James_Davidov

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #158 on: July 25, 2010, 06:23:19 AM »
I don't believe that this question has been properly answered yet (if it has I apologise).

I believe the 'of Hellenes', which is really just an alternative term for Greek, was brought into use following the failure of the first modern monarchy (under Otto of Wittelsbach).  King Otto or Orthon was styled 'King of Greece', a title he retained in exile as he did not abdicate, the following house (Glucksburg) therefore required an alternative title, and happy to distance themselves from the last unsuccessful King, adopted the style 'of Hellenes', a term which identified their role as head of Greek society and culture.

It should be noted that neither House could claim King of the Greeks', as many Greeks resided in Ottoman territory, and it would have increased tensions.

James
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Offline ashdean

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #159 on: July 25, 2010, 06:51:49 AM »
I don't believe that this question has been properly answered yet (if it has I apologise).

I believe the 'of Hellenes', which is really just an alternative term for Greek, was brought into use following the failure of the first modern monarchy (under Otto of Wittelsbach).  King Otto or Orthon was styled 'King of Greece', a title he retained in exile as he did not abdicate, the following house (Glucksburg) therefore required an alternative title, and happy to distance themselves from the last unsuccessful King, adopted the style 'of Hellenes', a term which identified their role as head of Greek society and culture.

It should be noted that neither House could claim King of the Greeks', as many Greeks resided in Ottoman territory, and it would have increased tensions.

James
Actually I was told by a Cretan friend that although Greece/greek is the common usage it was a Turkish expression and that Hellenes/Hellenic was the word most greeks citizens would prefer!

Offline mjl1786

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #160 on: July 27, 2010, 04:30:46 PM »
Typically, a lot of relatively young modern monarchies, especially ones created during the 18th century (Greece, Belgium, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.) used the style "King of the Hellenes", "King of the Romanians", etc., rather than "King of Greece", "King of Romania", because the aforementioned styles implied that they were the PEOPLE's king, that they were monarchs who ruled by popular consent, rather than king of the actual country, which typically had implications that the territory was THEIRS personally.

In the case of King Otho, he was initially an absolute monarch when he arrived in Greece, and when he was deposed and George I was put in his place, they made sure to specify that he was "King of the Hellenes" to emphasize a more democratic monarchy than the previous reign.

I can understand the confusion with the titles of the junior members of the Greek royal house. When George I became King of the Hellenes, it was agreed that all members of his dynasty would be known as "Prince/Princess of Greece and Denmark", since his father was the future King of Denmark, and all dynastic members of the Greek royal family would be male-line descendants of the Danish king. The same laws also stipulated that the crowns of Denmark and Greece would never fall to the same person, thus eliminating any member of the Greek royal family from inheriting the Danish throne, though they were still regarded as cadet members of the Danish dynasty. (Conversely, the members of the Norwegian royal house have never used the titles "Prince/Princess of Norway and Denmark", though they are alll male-line descendants of King Frederick VII of Denmark).

Nowadays, most people (i.e. the press when writing about them in shorthand periodicals or whatnot) refer to them just as "Prince/Princess of Greece", probably because they aren't aware of their descent from the Danish royal house.

Offline mjl1786

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #161 on: July 27, 2010, 04:33:16 PM »
Typically, a lot of relatively young modern monarchies, especially ones created during the 18th century (Greece, Belgium, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.) used the style "King of the Hellenes", "King of the Romanians", etc., rather than "King of Greece", "King of Romania", because the aforementioned styles implied that they were the PEOPLE's king, that they were monarchs who ruled by popular consent, rather than king of the actual country, which typically had implications that the territory was THEIRS personally.

In the case of King Otho, he was initially an absolute monarch when he arrived in Greece, and when he was deposed and George I was put in his place, they made sure to specify that he was "King of the Hellenes" to emphasize a more democratic monarchy than the previous reign.

I can understand the confusion with the titles of the junior members of the Greek royal house. When George I became King of the Hellenes, it was agreed that all members of his dynasty would be known as "Prince/Princess of Greece and Denmark", since his father was the future King of Denmark, and all dynastic members of the Greek royal family would be male-line descendants of the Danish king. The same laws also stipulated that the crowns of Denmark and Greece would never fall to the same person, thus eliminating any member of the Greek royal family from inheriting the Danish throne, though they were still regarded as cadet members of the Danish dynasty. (Conversely, the members of the Norwegian royal house have never used the titles "Prince/Princess of Norway and Denmark", though they are alll male-line descendants of King Frederick VII of Denmark).

Nowadays, most people (i.e. the press when writing about them in shorthand periodicals or whatnot) refer to them just as "Prince/Princess of Greece", probably because they aren't aware of their descent from the Danish royal house.


Excuse me, 19th century, not 18th century. OOPS :P

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #162 on: July 28, 2010, 06:34:59 PM »
King Othon/Otto  was "King of Greece".    Βασιλιάς της Ελλάδας.


King George I  and the following 5 Kings were "King(s) of the Hellenes".   Βασιλιάς των Ελλήνων.
Bear in mind as far as I am concerned King Constantine is still King of the Greeks.

The Princes' and Princess' were/are  "of Greece and Denmark".  Πρίγκηπας / πριγκήπισσα της Ελλάδας και της Δανίας.


 :)
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Offline Alexander1917

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #163 on: July 29, 2010, 05:36:06 PM »
isn't there the problem, that King Otto when he left Greece taht he didn't accept (or better signed) an abdication and so all further kings styled of the Hellenes?

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Title and surname of the Greek Kings
« Reply #164 on: July 29, 2010, 06:18:50 PM »
Yes
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17