Author Topic: Maria photos III  (Read 590529 times)

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Offline Judicial Investigator

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #750 on: November 01, 2015, 07:19:13 AM »
Мария Николаевна во время посещения Федоровского городка в Царском Селе, 1915 год
ГА РФ, ф. 683 оп. 1 д. 125 л. 20 фото 355

"Часто бывает, что истина, когда ее пытаются скрыть, обнаруживается в маленьких штрихах, в деталях." - Н. А. Соколов

Offline Превед

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #751 on: November 04, 2015, 04:08:24 PM »

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If members of the upper classes look good, it's a kind of biological legitimisation in our eyes: Of course they must be upper class, because they are so good / attractive / popular. This is especially poignant in the US, where class divides which deep down only are about capital, capital, capital are expressed in terms of race, access to health care and obesity, perhaps especially for women, whose looks are a physical capital they can capitalize on (from prostitution, stripping, modelling etc. to marrying up).

Quite true. If a physically unattractive man has a lot of money chances are he'll marry and procreate with a "trophy wife". This means his children will likely be better looking than he. Then when his children, blessed with a healthy inheritance, do the same they're likely to have even more attractive children, and so on. Wealthy people tend to be better looking not only because they can afford personal trainers, the best cosmetics, and the sharpest looking outfits, but because of simple genetics. So, as you were saying, a beautiful looking person is generally also perceived to come from money and have a higher social standing.

This might be how it works today, but I suspect it's a rather recent phenomena. In the past many men got rich(er) by marrying heiresses, who certainly weren't always good-looking.
Don't biologists say attraction deep down is about pheromones, i.e. smell? Humans can sniff out which members of the opposite sex their genes will click best with, producing offspring with the best immune system. (Thus opposites may attract.) Then think of all the upper-class offspring that has been produced not based on mutual attraction, but because of political or economic alliances, dowries, inheritances, Ebenbürtigkeit / endogamy or other social norms! Literal misfits.

Today I suppose it's not so much the upper classes actually looking so much better, but the underclass in capitalist societies often looking disgusting, because they live on cheap food that is not really nutritious, like all kinds of refined starch, palm oil and corn syrup based products. Combined with lack of vitamines and sunlight this gives them bad skin and a swollen look. The lower parts of the underclass add hereditary traits of facial and bodily asymetry to this through substance abuse, the effects of which (also that occuring before conception) may be inherited by their offspring.

In the past the underclasses often looked worn, faded and jaded, i.e. too old for their age, but because they were lean instead of swollen they looked handsome in a striking way (like the fashion models of today), not like the greasy-grey, spotty, dough-faced underclass in deprived areas today.

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An obese black woman with bad teeth is extremely unlikely to be upper class in the US.

Though funny how one particular woman fitting this general description is also one of the wealthiest and most beloved in the country :-)
Who are you thinking of? Oprah Winfrey?

In addition to being more sexually desirable to straight men, attractive women are perceived to be more confident and more easy going. They are also assumed to be more likable in many cases. Of course there is always the pretty & popular "mean girl" lurking somewhere, but that's more a school age phenomenon as less common in adulthood. Pretty girls are assumed to be less angry, feisty and jaded because they've probably grown up being more popular and having advantages over their less attractive peers while also having a generally easier time of things. They simply didn't have to work as hard to get into people's good graces. Of course attractive women - and women in general - also struggle to find acceptance for different reasons, such as...If you're a pretty female you're probably dumb. If you're a pretty female you've had things handed to you. If you're a pretty female you were hired and/or managed to climb corporate ladder only because of your looks.

So, attractive women who have been hit on all the time from puberty are not jaded? No chance that has made them either megalomanics, man despisers or bedhopping libertines, depending on whether they welcomed (and acted on) the attention or not?

And what happens when such a woman is past childbearing age, menopause destroys her looks and no new man is sexually interested in her anymore? Has she developed enough personality to deal with that?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 04:40:31 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline edubs31

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #752 on: November 05, 2015, 11:17:30 AM »
I don't want to steer is too far off course. Not only is this Maria thread it's a Maria photos thread. So this will be my last comment on the topic...

Preved I agree with pretty much everything you said in your first three paragraphs...

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Who are you thinking of? Oprah Winfrey?

Yes indeed! Obviously the exception not the rule but still. For such a supposedly racist, sexist, image conscious culture as America is often perceived our most admired woman is, arguably, a heavy-set black woman. The President is African-American, the current leader in national polling for the GOP nomination is black, and the leader on the Democratic side is a woman.

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So, attractive women who have been hit on all the time from puberty are not jaded? No chance that has made them either megalomanics, man despisers or bedhopping libertines, depending on whether they welcomed (and acted on) the attention or not?

Of course it does. But if you line up 100 "attractive" women next to 100 of their unattractive peers I can almost guarantee you that you'll find a lower rates of self-esteem, higher-rates of depression, less popularity (at least when they were younger), lower income levels, etc., coming from the latter.

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And what happens when such a woman is past childbearing age, menopause destroys her looks and no new man is sexually interested in her anymore? Has she developed enough personality to deal with that?

Probably not. Falling from a higher elevation will of course make the impact feel harder. But if she played her hand right she should at least be in a good condition financially, unlike her heavier-set less attractive peers. Marrying when you're young and hot to Mr. Money Bags means a lot of alimony dough when you're older...if he decides ditch you and mess around with the cocktail waitress half his age...you get me?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Превед

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #753 on: November 05, 2015, 12:22:53 PM »
I don't want to steer is too far off course. Not only is this Maria thread it's a Maria photos thread. So this will be my last comment on the topic...
Perhaps the moderators should move these posts to a separate thread about looks the relation between looks, class and psychology.

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Who are you thinking of? Oprah Winfrey?

Yes indeed! Obviously the exception not the rule but still. For such a supposedly racist, sexist, image conscious culture as America is often perceived our most admired woman is, arguably, a heavy-set black woman. The President is African-American, the current leader in national polling for the GOP nomination is black, and the leader on the Democratic side is a woman.
That's great.
Too bad the country is going down the drain when these people finally get the power? E.g. Lenin succeeding NII?

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So, attractive women who have been hit on all the time from puberty are not jaded? No chance that has made them either megalomanics, man despisers or bedhopping libertines, depending on whether they welcomed (and acted on) the attention or not?

Of course it does. But if you line up 100 "attractive" women next to 100 of their unattractive peers I can almost guarantee you that you'll find a lower rates of self-esteem, higher-rates of depression, less popularity (at least when they were younger), lower income levels, etc., coming from the latter.

I think that's very interesting, not at least with regard to OTMA. Maria and Tatiana are perhaps typical attractive women who men would like as mothers of their children: Maria always good-natured and cheerful, Tatiana stoïcal and a rock in the tempest. But I'm sure many boys would have liked the more obnoxious, yet fun Anastasia as their girlfriend and I, as a bisexual, feel a romantic longing for the depressed Olga. Oh, if I only could have heard her thoughts, introduced her to literature that would have widened her outlook, especially my dear Edith Södergran. I would have loved to sit at Olga's and Edith's feet and hear these two wise young women discuss poetry and methaphorical images from the Finnish coast.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 12:24:34 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline edubs31

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #754 on: November 05, 2015, 01:38:58 PM »
There is an OTMA for everyone, no doubt! Perhaps why the fascination and affection continues to live on nearly a century after their deaths.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Judicial Investigator

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #755 on: November 07, 2015, 08:10:14 AM »
Мария Николаевна в Царском Селе, 1915 год
ГА РФ, ф. 640 оп. 3 д. 25 л. 72 фото 1070 

"Часто бывает, что истина, когда ее пытаются скрыть, обнаруживается в маленьких штрихах, в деталях." - Н. А. Соколов

Offline Judicial Investigator

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #756 on: November 15, 2015, 08:30:22 AM »
Мария Николаевна в Стрельне, 1912 год (?)
ГА РФ, ф. 640 оп. 3 д. 25 л. 18 фото 252

"Часто бывает, что истина, когда ее пытаются скрыть, обнаруживается в маленьких штрихах, в деталях." - Н. А. Соколов

Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #757 on: November 30, 2015, 09:44:54 AM »
A much better version of this elusive and beautiful formal portrait of Maria and Anastatia



Courtesy of http://antique-royals.tumblr.com/

Offline edubs31

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #758 on: November 30, 2015, 02:32:50 PM »
Wow! Thanks for posting Ally. This is a stunner indeed!
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline KarinK

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #759 on: December 04, 2015, 03:44:03 AM »
It's wonderful to finally see that very familiar photo in such good quality!

Offline Jen_94

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #760 on: December 16, 2015, 01:00:09 PM »
Ally, what a beautiful photo! So lovely to see the higher quality version! Thanks for sharing.

Offline Judicial Investigator

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #761 on: January 01, 2016, 12:45:26 PM »
Мария Николаевна
Фото из книги Н. Розановой "Царственные Страстотерпцы"

"Часто бывает, что истина, когда ее пытаются скрыть, обнаруживается в маленьких штрихах, в деталях." - Н. А. Соколов

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #762 on: March 23, 2016, 04:07:28 AM »
Ally, the author of that 1917 book you have is very truthful in describing Maria : )  I also am thinking the author said that because of Maria's Russian beauty. Tho' Olga to me also looks just as Russian, people then would be in consensus in saying she is the only Russian beauty among the sisters so for them she's the most beautiful. Thanks for posting that, too! It's awesome to know another person complimenting her at such awful times.




Imagine that you are born in Russia and consider yourself a proud patriotic Russian and you grow up surrounded by like-minded people. They also put you on a pedastal and have likely never studied your family tree carefully .  Your mother is German and your father almost completely German too. Yet as you grow up, your fellow Russians comment on your classic Russian looks , Slavic features , etc . Decades after your death  many people, including respected historians , still point out your splendid Russian appearance.

 Just 1 of your 256 great x6 grandparents was Russian. It is there in black and white on your family tree. Your Russian ancestry was in fact very tenuous and was likely undetectable in your DNA  . Your perceived Danish and English blood wasn't a reality either because , like yourself , your recent ancestors were born in countries (England and Denmark) to parents of German ancestry. So you have to ask yourself - why did everyone say I looked Russian , and why do people still say it now , even though I was more German than many actual Germans ?

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #763 on: March 23, 2016, 08:14:19 AM »
Good point!

Interestingly, George V, who was even less English than Nicholas II was Russian, was a quintessential Englishman in character.

There was a newspaper report over here yesterday of a girl being removed from white foster parents because she is 1.5% Choctaw Indian. By my reckoning, that means one of her 128  five-greats grandparents was a Choctaw Indian. I can't help wondering how anyone knows this - despite being interested in genealogy, I would be hard-put to name more than two of my five-greats grandparents!

Ann

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: Maria photos III
« Reply #764 on: March 24, 2016, 06:31:42 AM »
Good point!

Interestingly, George V, who was even less English than Nicholas II was Russian, was a quintessential Englishman in character.

There was a newspaper report over here yesterday of a girl being removed from white foster parents because she is 1.5% Choctaw Indian. By my reckoning, that means one of her 128  five-greats grandparents was a Choctaw Indian. I can't help wondering how anyone knows this - despite being interested in genealogy, I would be hard-put to name more than two of my five-greats grandparents!

Ann

The main point is - many OTMA fans simply assume they were far more Russian than they actually were ( the reality is 0.4% ) .They were German .
 Looks are subjective for sure. But people often see what they want , or expect , to see. If they examine OTMA for long enough they will begin to see 'Russian features' etc , because they are looking for them,  and are making wrong assumptions about their heritage  . Authors have done so for decades , and still continue even now  (Helen Rappaport for instance) .  If all you have is a hammer , everything looks like a nail.