Author Topic: Metternich - Winneberg  (Read 83127 times)

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Offline beladona

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2008, 03:13:12 PM »
Portrait of Pauline Kunigunde, sister of Klemens Metternich, painted by Joseph Grassi in 1798:


Offline Marc

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2008, 07:32:10 PM »
I don't think that there is a portrait of Antoinette von Leykam on the web...I would also like to see her,but... :-(

Offline beladona

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2008, 10:09:41 AM »
I don't think that there is a portrait of Antoinette von Leykam on the web...I would also like to see her,but... :-(

Seek and you will find!:)
Portrait of "a beauty" Antoinette Leykam, second wife of Clemens Metternich from castle Kynzvart:


Offline Marc

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2008, 09:32:40 PM »
Great Beladona,she really was beautiful...such a rare one to find!

Offline Marc

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2008, 09:44:09 PM »
Is there any portrait of his wife Eleonore in colour or his parents?

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2010, 04:07:59 PM »
Does some one know which Czech properties were restored? I thought only the properties of 'real' Czech noble families were restored to the original owners like for example the princes Lobkowicz and the Kinsky's
It's not "Czech heritage" that is the deciding factor, but whether the nobles were loyal to Czechoslovakia. Those who had their properties nationalized because they were "enemies of Czechoslovakia" (i.e. they supported German expansion and/or Nazism in the 1920-30-40s) are not eligible for restitution, whereas those who were merely "enemies of the people" and had their properties nationalized by the Communists are eligible.

Their illegitimate daughter Landgräfin Clementine von Blöme...
Ah, that's a daring translation of the hard-to-translate Danish title (the Blomes were a Holsteinian family) of lensgreve and lensgrevinde. The most logical German translation is Lehnsgraf and Lehnsgräfin. In English it's trickier: Fief count, feudal count, enfeoffed count, entailed count?

While basically somewhat of the same concept, "Landgrave" would give quite the wrong impression, as a lensgreve was not at all ruling a major immediate territory, but a large estate which he had formally surrendered to the King and received back as a majorat with powers of local justice, in pseudo-feudal fashion termed fiefs. (There were also lensbaroner or enfeoffed barons, with smaller fiefs.) While all other counts who were merely titular were simple grever, counts, there were also titular lensgrev(inde)r, among them King Frederik VII's morganatic wife Countess Danner!

BTW if the biological father of Countess Clementine Blome (the "von" is usually ommitted when it comes to titled Danish nobles) was Metternich, then I understand better why her son Count Gustav Blome went into Austrian service after Schleswig-Holstein became Danish and settled as Fideikommissherr (Lord of an Entail or Majorat) of Montpreis in Styria (today in Slovenia).

BTW I've been to the Blomes' castle Salzau in Holstein (very nice bike tour from Kiel) and although I'm normally not a great fan of the Second Empire-ish style, I liked it very much. I certainly prefer it to the strange Neo-Gothicism of the Blumenburg and it's just sooo Schleswig-Holsteinian with the white castle and the pond:


Very much the environment in which you must imagine the scenes in Schleswig-Holstein nobility's enfant terrible Elisabeth Gräfin von Plessen's anti-nobility book "Mitteilungen an den Adel" (Message to the Nobility)!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 04:09:33 PM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2010, 04:55:22 PM »
after Schleswig-Holstein became Danish
God, as much as I wish it was that way, that was a typo and I meant Prussian!

Offline Marc

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2010, 06:24:03 PM »
Well,as Clementine Metternich's husband was himself an Austrian General-Mayor and Chamberlain and his family was of German origin I thought that this "von" should be used and in genealogy sites I looked it is also said "von Blome"...


http://genealogy.euweb.cz/russia/skavron.html


Please tell me,but is this incorrect or just not hearable for Danish titled nobility of German origin...I mean were they allowed to be "von" or just  they didn't want in Denmark because sometimes they were listed as "von" and sometimes without...
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 06:29:52 PM by Marc »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2010, 12:35:40 AM »
Dear, Marc!

You are quite correct in giving the Blomes their due "von" in the German fashion!

I just wanted to share an idiosyncracy of the little-known Scandinavian nobility. I don't know if it was because they wanted to imitate the old Danish medieval nobility, like the Rosenkrantzes, Krabbes, Geddes, Juels, Bjelkes, Gøyes, Lunges, Friises, etc. who never used a "von" (indeed it would have be ridiculous, as they usually were named after their armorial bearingss, not places) or if it was to distance themselves from the lower nobility, who often were ennobled by adding a von (e.g. Von Jenssen etc.), but the titled families themselves, like the Ahlefeldts, Bernstorffs, Wedells, Moltkes, Reventlows etc. usually dropped the "von", which they usually were entitled to, as they all were Germans. The equites originarii of Schleswig-Holstein, like the Rantzaus, Brockdorffs, Blomes etc. are often referred to without "von" in the Danish fashion, especially if they also were titled.

In Sweden, on the other hand, more titled families did sport a "von", e.g. Counts von Rosen, Counts von Essen, Barons von Blixen-Finecke etc. Perhaps this was due to more Swedish noble names being "invented armorially derived surnames" like the medieval ones above. Since the ennobled persons often were military men, they often featured miliary elements: One such was Pistolekors (meaning Pistol Cross, the arms featuring two crossed guns), which in the Germanophone Baltic Provinces became the Von Pistohlkors familiar to Romanov fans. In Sweden you have, also in the modern era, many titled families with medieval, native names and they never use a "von": E.g. the Counts Bonde, Counts Brahe, Counts Sparre, Counts Stenbock etc.

I know this sounds frightfully confusing, but I think this makes the Scandinavian nobility sound cooler than the boring, endememic Germans Von Diesburg, Von Dasberg. At least untill you get down to the Schweinheim genannt von Sackpfeife layer of the German nobility!

BTW the "von" is firmly entrenched in the Scandinavian imagination as the quintessence of (lower, ennobled) nobility, e.g. Uncle Scrooge in Donald Duck is called Joakim von And / Joakim von Anka (= von Duck) in both Danish and Swedish! :-)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 01:03:10 AM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Offline Marc

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2010, 08:22:58 AM »
So,this was the case...yes,it's quite confusing for someone who can see that it's a German noble family but not knowing that this family resides in Sweden,Denmark etc. and wants to incorporate in Scandinavian system.Thank you for clarifying that...

I think that even that could be the case with Metternich family...they almost never used "von" Metternich,but just "zu" when referring Beilstein as a part of Metternich-Winneburg "zu" Beilstein...have they ever used "von Metternich" like many other German and Austrian families?

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2010, 08:59:42 PM »
Does anybody know why on earth Prince Metternich's illegitimate son Roger Armand Victor Maurice (1827 - 1906) with the Duchess of Castries (née de Maillé de la Tour Landry) was ennobled in Austria as Baron of Aldenburg, when Aldenburg was a morganatic sideline of the Counts of Oldenburg (later Aldenburg-Bentinck)?

Offline Marc

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Re: Metternich - Winneberg
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2012, 04:27:12 PM »
Countess Pascalina Antoinette Metternich,Countess von Waldstein-Wartenberg: