Author Topic: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson  (Read 233506 times)

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Offline hikaru

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #165 on: May 03, 2005, 10:34:27 AM »
I have no original , but I think , it is the same.
It is just issued.

Offline Macedonsky

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #166 on: May 10, 2005, 04:31:25 AM »
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I have just bought this book in Russian.The cover is very stylish. Dark blue.
The Russian name is  "Romanovs: The Fate of the Tsar's dynasty.

ISBN: 5-699-10642-1, Moscow:EKSMO, 2005

Interesting that Russian translation has 976 pages while English original only 657


Offline Elizabeth

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #167 on: May 18, 2005, 10:33:50 AM »
Just wanted to post that I've been reading Greg & Penny's book (again!), and since I'm now "officially" on this board, I wanted to commend both of them for such a fabulous work.  I read it when it first came out and thought I'd pick it up again, as it's approaching the anniversary of the murders.

While reading the book, I have been thinking how HARD it was for the family to not have regular church services, ESP. during Holy Week and Easter (which - in my opinion - is the most magnificent period of the entire church year, and yes, I'm Orthodox!).  Any thoughts?

Greg & Penny (if you're "out there") -- Starting back at the Alexander Palace, was the family denied services (I'll have to go back and check), esp. since Easter in 1917 fell AFTER the abdication?

I recall that they were allowed to go to church in Tobolsk, but that "privilege" was denied after the priest prayed for the IF during the Great Entrance of the Divine Liturgy.  Were they able to have a priest visit the house at Tobolsk regularly?  And what happened to the priests/bishops in Tobolsk after the Bolsheviks took over the city?  Were they punished?

At the Ipatiev House, I recall you writing that they were denied a priest on several occasions, but Yurovsky releted shortly before the murders.  Did the priests who were there in those final days write a book on their experiences (I saw in the footnotes that you referenced one of them and a publication in French, I think).  Is this available in translation?  Were those priests able to escape from the city after the White Army entered?

Also, it seems that the IF was never left ALONE with the priests - hence, I would assume that no confessions or counseling between the IF and the clergy were permitted.  

Just some thoughts . . .

Offline Belochka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #168 on: May 19, 2005, 01:51:03 AM »
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ISBN: 5-699-10642-1, Moscow:EKSMO, 2005

Interesting that Russian translation has 976 pages while English original only 657


The reason may have something to do with differences in printing format between the two publications. ;)


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Offline Ortino

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #169 on: July 13, 2005, 01:23:33 AM »
It could also be the language itself. A word or phrase in English might be longer in Russian characters or even need to be expressed in multiple words to explain it. Things such as size of the print could also potentially affect the length.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #170 on: October 12, 2005, 10:51:33 AM »
I enjoyed this book, and think it is a place where you can find out much about the Romanovs you never knew before. You think all the information has been rehashed and rehashed, and then you read this book it is amazing! It is long, but it is the most recent book on everything and the conclusions are quite true, and there is much evidence to back them up. The way the authors write was impressive, it makes you aware of how everything they say is true, and commonsense. I read this book in spring, 2004 and reviewed it then, and should post my review. I have nothing but praise for this book, and think you can only debate minor details about it.

Offline Belochka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #171 on: November 02, 2005, 06:20:33 PM »
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My first post here!
Welcome aboard!

Quote
Anyway, I'm coming at this late and I've not yet completed the book. Perhaps my opinions will change and if they do I'll be sure to make note of it.

Regards


Many different interpretations are available both in Russia and in the west. It is always preferable to read a number of these, and not rely on a single authorship.

:)


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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #172 on: November 03, 2005, 10:51:56 PM »
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  My deep frustration with this work lies beyond its numerous "typo's" and conpositional failures to its promise of "shocking new information"... Where oh where could that information be? I still haven't found anything here  I didn't already know...

    I am still uncertain why King and Wilson still keep the old "Anastasia survived" dream alive...Ah well back to the book. :(

rskkiya


Generally, I don't agree with you Rskkiya, but in this one I MUST DO IT.

I excpected a lot of this book, since Penny Wilson and Greg King said that there was so much new information an evidence in it. I can't find it in my country, and it is not translated into Spanish ...So an excellent person from this board, Felix, send "FOTR" to me to read...And I must said I was deceived. I couldn't find anything new or shocking in the book. The only "shoking" thing in this work is the murders of the Romanov's account. Extremely sensasionalistic if I must to said it. Disgusting...Too much for me. A great deal of "blood", "body fluids", "exploding brains", and "urine" for me. I don't need it really. I don't need to know how the lovely four girls finished their lives in a mass of blood, brains and urine.  I don't need to know how Alexei remained frozen in his chair, spotted with his parent's blood. Not in a book.

But beyond this unnecessary details, there is nothing more. Nothing new about a "surviving Anastasia" (not Anna Anderson, nor any of the well known "Anastasias") or a "surviving Alexei". The book is nothing than an excuse to said how a tyrant Nicholas II was,  how Alix was addeply histerycal woman, how OTMAA were normal children and more than that, bad children, in any case, not lovely children, especially Alexei who was so naughty and bad that attacked other children to have their noses bleeding (I didn't like this hypothesis a bit), and how Bolsheviks were nice guys who wanted freedom for they beloved Russia and that killed NAOTMAA for pure idealism. Ideous...Awful. What can I say?

I expected to find in this book more info about AA and other pretenders. There is NOT. Now, I know that Penny Wilson and Greg King doesn't think that AA was AN anymore because the DNA, but they doesn't accept that AA was FS. And I feel I need to go vomit. They doesn't affirm this for they really think that DNA is wrong or manipulate, but for they need to sell new books and it's more suitable for their bussiness that they said that AA was really a Red Agent or something like that. I'm an historian since I had 16 years old, but only in the last four years or so I felt that I'm near the nausea. People may be blinded for their political or social views and their forget the truth.

The truth...The only thing who must be almost holy for us, historians...

RealAnastasia. :'(

Offline Belochka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #173 on: November 04, 2005, 12:26:03 AM »
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The only "shoking" thing in this work is the murders of the Romanov's account. Extremely sensasionalistic if I must to said it.

The book is nothing than an excuse to said how a tyrant Nicholas II was,  how Alix was addeply histerycal woman, how OTMAA were normal children and more than that, bad children, in any case, not lovely children, especially Alexei who was so naughty and bad that attacked other children to have their noses bleeding (I didn't like this hypothesis a bit), and how Bolsheviks were nice guys who wanted freedom for they beloved Russia and that killed NAOTMAA for pure idealism. Ideous...Awful.

People may be blinded for their political or social views and their forget the truth.

The truth...The only thing who must be almost holy for us, historians...

RealAnastasia. :'(


RealAnastasia, your honest appraisal is refreshing.


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Offline Tania+

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #174 on: November 04, 2005, 12:27:28 PM »
The statement below is a statement that we must all stand by, for whom ever, or for what ever we search the world over for.

Real truth is noble in it's stance, and can never be mis-used.

If truth is holy for historians, you can imagine what it is for the every day citizen, and in expressing that of a leader, it allows you to know the true direction of that countries course.

In the end, to follow truth and speak truth, is to offer the excellence of what freedom is in every way. It's the best we have to offer present and future generations.

Tatiana



"People may be blinded for their political or social views and their forget the truth.

The truth...The only thing who must be almost holy for us, historians... "

RealAnastasia.  
TatianaA


Offline Belochka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #175 on: November 04, 2005, 06:17:02 PM »
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In the end, to follow truth and speak truth, is to offer the excellence of what freedom is ... It's the best we have to offer present and future generations.

Tatiana


Well stated Tania. The problem is that some western authors who expouse their new sensationalist hypotheses and oblique remarks only serve to cloud such truths.

That is exactly why such interpretations must be viewed with caution and not be accepted as factual.


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rskkiya

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #176 on: November 04, 2005, 08:36:10 PM »
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Generally, I don't agree with you Rskkiya, but in this one I MUST DO IT.

I excpected a lot of this book, since Penny Wilson and Greg King said that there was so much new information an evidence in it. I can't find it in my country, and it is not translated into Spanish ...So an excellent person from this board, Felix, send "FOTR" to me to read...And I must said I was deceived. I couldn't find anything new or shocking in the book. The only "shoking" thing in this work is the murders of the Romanov's account. Extremely sensasionalistic if I must to said it. Disgusting...Too much for me. A great deal of "blood", "body fluids", "exploding brains", and "urine" for me. I don't need it really. I don't need to know how the lovely four girls finished their lives in a mass of blood, brains and urine.  I don't need to know how Alexei remained frozen in his chair, spotted with his parent's blood. Not in a book.

But beyond this unnecessary details, there is nothing more. Nothing new about a "surviving Anastasia" (not Anna Anderson, nor any of the well known "Anastasias") or a "surviving Alexei". The book is nothing than an excuse to said how a tyrant Nicholas II was,  how Alix was addeply histerycal woman, how OTMAA were normal children and more than that, bad children, in any case, not lovely children, especially Alexei who was so naughty and bad that attacked other children to have their noses bleeding (I didn't like this hypothesis a bit), and how Bolsheviks were nice guys who wanted freedom for they beloved Russia and that killed NAOTMAA for pure idealism. Ideous...Awful. What can I say?

I expected to find in this book more info about AA and other pretenders. There is NOT. Now, I know that Penny Wilson and Greg King doesn't think that AA was AN anymore because the DNA, but they doesn't accept that AA was FS. And I feel I need to go vomit. They doesn't affirm this for they really think that DNA is wrong or manipulate, but for they need to sell new books and it's more suitable for their bussiness that they said that AA was really a Red Agent or something like that. I'm an historian since I had 16 years old, but only in the last four years or so I felt that I'm near the nausea. People may be blinded for their political or social views and their forget the truth.

The truth...The only thing who must be almost holy for us, historians...

RealAnastasia. :'(


Thank you so much RA!
    I am honoured that we agree about this.
Although I didn't have too much of an issue with the 'gore factor' regarding the execution, I did find this book refreshing only in its attempt to point out the personal everyday pettiness and bad behaviour of any family under such circumstances -- I get a wee bit tired of the "Lovely & Holy Family game"  - but then again - I am not a Believer!

rs


Lizameridox

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #177 on: November 04, 2005, 11:35:59 PM »
Hear, hear.  You have said it all, better than any review that has tried to say the same thing.  Thank you, RA, and thank you, Belochka!  

That said, FOTR is proof that it is very difficult to remain objective about history that one has become attached to, either through hyper-romanticism or deliberate, blatant iconoclasty.  Do we blame the polarized opinions produced by this book on the tenor of the times or on shrewd marketing?

Content-wise, it is an unwieldy volume in need of editing, and basically a deconstructionalist, politicized spin on older material that has either never been translated into English or gone out of print.  It could be compared to an unfinished doctoral dissertation meant to impress the European History faculty at a left-leaning university on the West Coast, that should have been sent back for further work before the degree was ever awarded.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lizameridox »

Offline Arleen

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #178 on: November 05, 2005, 08:22:17 AM »
After reading the last couple of days of posts this morning one thing stands out.  RA it really makes me feel sad to know that Felix sent that book to you as a gift, and paid the postage on it, only for you to knock it to death on this forum.  That is sort of like looking a gift horse in the mouth.  There are plenty of people who would love to receive a book like that and would be grateful.

Most of us loved the book!

..Arleen

rskkiya

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #179 on: November 05, 2005, 09:45:21 AM »
It is a highly flawed text...
Yes - it does possess some good insites, nevertheless it is flawed.
Arleen, I understand that "many of us loved the book" but that doesn't compensate for its innacuracies and historical errors. RA is a historian, and while I do not agree with some of her views, I respect her right to critique this work.

ever yours ;)
rskkiya

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »