Author Topic: Russian and European Court Dresses  (Read 121626 times)

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Offline bednayaliza

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #120 on: January 11, 2011, 12:25:24 PM »

Offline bednayaliza

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #121 on: May 05, 2011, 07:03:21 AM »


portrait of Serebrennikova

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #122 on: May 31, 2011, 01:08:50 PM »


I have the same but with other colors...


Two ladies in court gown (early 19th century style), they are surely a pair of ladies in waiting... if I'm not wrong, of course!  :-?
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Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #123 on: May 31, 2011, 01:25:06 PM »
Its the same portrait with the same colors but yours are wishy-washed.

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Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #124 on: October 28, 2011, 07:23:35 PM »
from KORSHUNOVA (available in Russian, French and English) Costume in Russia: 18th to Early 20th Centuries from the Hermitage Museum  ISBN: 0569085780

and the Russian book, by BESPALOVA Kostium v Rossii


can someone please tell me which book is better and what details they have please?

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2011, 10:56:53 AM »
I have both books and by and large the illustrations don't overlap.  Both have large colour pictures; the Korshunova book obviously concentrates mostly on the Hermitage collections which are focused around the imperial family's fashions over the centuries and are mostly western in style.  The Bespalova book (I think there is now an edition in English) has more illustrations of Russian folk costumes and of military and civilian uniforms as well as clothes of the middle and upper classes.  The Amazon page for this book (which doesn't seem to be available however) has a number of samples of the illustrations which you could look at:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/COSTUME-RUSSIA-15th-20th-CENTURY-Russian/dp/B002F26PKU/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320075767&sr=1-2 
I can't read russian so can't compare the texts but certainly Korshunova seems to be thorough without being overly pedantic.  I'm not sure one is better than the other - it depends on what sort of costume you're particularly interested in.

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2011, 01:44:18 PM »
THANK YOU!! :)

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #127 on: November 04, 2011, 03:39:45 AM »
There is now a version of Kostium v Rossii in English, 'Russian Elegance - Country & City Fashion'.  It is available from many websites and in bookstores - here is a website which shows a small fraction of the illustrations and the text:

http://www.accdistribution.com/uk/store/productview/9781908126078

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #128 on: April 13, 2012, 12:39:29 PM »
Found this beautiful court dress as AF's
Russia cannot be grasped with the mind, or measured in feet and inches, for she has a special character: In Russia one can only believe. ~Fyodor Tyutchev.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #129 on: July 09, 2012, 02:25:06 PM »
Found this as Ksenia Alexandrovna´s (1894)




Detail


Source: Tsarselo.ru
Russia cannot be grasped with the mind, or measured in feet and inches, for she has a special character: In Russia one can only believe. ~Fyodor Tyutchev.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #130 on: July 09, 2012, 09:10:16 PM »
The embroidery of royal clothes always knocks me flat. Exquisite...and what were  these clothes  like as they MOVED? We always see them still as stone . But imagine seeing them float along when the royal walked by....all the jewels and metallic thread would be firing off  lights . Wow
Thanks for posting!

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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #131 on: July 10, 2012, 05:44:49 PM »
The embroidery of royal clothes always knocks me flat. Exquisite...and what were  these clothes  like as they MOVED? We always see them still as stone . But imagine seeing them float along when the royal walked by....all the jewels and metallic thread would be firing off  lights . Wow
Thanks for posting!
You're very welcome!! I agree totally with you, that complicated and beautiful embroidery let me without words! Would be a real pleasure to see it being used by its owner, all would be sparkling!!  :o

A few more:
Red one with silver thread


Source: museums.artyx.ru <- Click there for seeing it in better size!!

Without much metallic thread but still beautiful
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 05:46:26 PM by Yelena Aleksandrovna »
Russia cannot be grasped with the mind, or measured in feet and inches, for she has a special character: In Russia one can only believe. ~Fyodor Tyutchev.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #132 on: August 09, 2012, 08:15:15 AM »
The metal thread embroidery would have glittered and sparkled when new.  Of course this embroidery was all done by hand in an era when labour was cheap and such work could be done (that's not to say that these gowns were at all cheap, merely that the embroiderers were not that well paid).

The weight of these court dresses must be considerable.  With the trains primarily of velvet, lined with silk or satin and  embroidered with silver and gold thread, these garments would have considerable pull at the centre back waist.  They were designed for display and magnificence and to give an impression of majesty, hence the very solid appearance.

I can't think of any other royal court that had such picturesque court dress for its female members..........
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #133 on: August 09, 2012, 02:44:58 PM »
Really, Martyn ?  The French, Spainish and Austrian courts were rather "trend setting" in their days. Outside of Europe,  the Chinese and  other Asian courts were even more elaborate. Unlress I am mistaken, and this is just a guess, brocade came from China.
 Yes, the Russian costumes were, very heavy and hard to wear,  but when one has   two ladies to put this together, plus the hairdresser, jewel polisher. and other assistants to get one around, plus being trained from childhood, I would guess they just "grinned and bore it".  And, there were rules about colour,, who could wear what. I think Greg King mentions this in Last Court and Wortman  in Scenarios of Power. I do not know who invented these rules, but the are based on rank, position,  and, of course, money. Sounds to me like  they date back to Louis XIV and his ploy to keep the aristoes and their toes.
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Offline katmaxoz

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Re: Russian and European Court Dresses
« Reply #134 on: August 31, 2012, 05:19:48 PM »
I don't think the idea of the russian court dress was to be 'trend setting'.  It was introduced in the 1834 by Tsar Nicholas I to enhance the "Russian" or national characteristics of the dress worn at court and to distinguish the Russian court from the other European courts. I think it did that very well. The "armour" the ladies wore was very distinctive and even now makes it easy to see that it the Russian court the wearer comes from or is attending.  You are correct about the colour ranks in the dress.

these are some notes I have on the dress style from various online sources:

 
"In 1834 Nicholas I written an ukaze about the court dress:
maiden of honnor to the Empress: red velvet embroided in golden (unmarried women)
ladies in waiting to the State: green velvet embroided in golden (married women)
ladies in witing to the grand duchesses : blue velvet embroidered in silver

The Empresses wore cloth of silver or cloth of gold (according to her preference) for high state occasions, or colored silk embridered with gold or silver for lesser state occasions.  The Empress' favorite color was reserved for her personal use; Alexandra's was an intense rose pink, Marie's a deep cerise. 

Each Grand-Duchess also had a color reserved for her exclusive use; Xenia's was peacock blue, Maria Pavlovna the elder's was a siennese orange, Grand duchess Elizabeth was aquamarine etc.
 
The costumes of the attendant ladies in waiting were as follows; The ladies-in-waiting to the Empresses wore
red velvet embroidered with gold.  Ladies in waiting to the grand duchesses wore forest green velvet enbroidered in gold.  The unmarried ladies in waiting had picturesque capes which covered their bare shoulders. Married ladies were required to attach long tulle veils to their kokoshniki (headdresses).

ladies-in-wating to the empresses (in red) were always unmarried, and they were called "Freliny" (From the german word, Fraulein). 

Maids of Honour who attended the Empress: Same cut and design dress as above, but dress made of crimson velvet embroidered with gold.

Maids of Honour who attended Grand Duchesses (wives of Grand Dukes): Same as above made of crimson velvet embroidered with silver.

Maids of Honour who atteded Grand Duchess (Daughter or Grandaughter of Emperor): Same dress design and cut as those above, but made of light blue velvet.


After marriage, these girls became "Dames d'Honneur" and switched to the dark Green Robes.
All of these women wore a "Chiffre" on the left shoulder, which was the diamond monogram of the member of the Imperial family whom they served, which was suspended from the Ribbon of the Order of Saint Andrew.  If they were in service for many years, they were additionally offered the "Damy portret" which was a miniature of the Empress surrounded in Diamonds, and suspended from a ribbon.  There were a finite number of these "Damy Portrety" (I believe only 20) and it was a coveted honor; when a woman retured, her position would be offered to the next woman to be honored. There were a few women who served multiple empresses, and some who had served first Marie, and then Alexandra who wore double portraits.
 
The portrait was not automatically bestowed with the position of "Dama" but was acquired later.
 
I have also read of the "violet" train of the Freliny, but of the dozens of uniforms I have seen in the collections of the Catherine Palace, Pavlovsk, THe State Russian Museum, and the Metropolitan Museum here in New York, I have never encountered a violet (which I take to mean purple) train. 
 
 
The length of the train was determined by the rank of the wearer, the longest belonging to the Empresses, (as long as three metres) followed by Imperial Grand Duchesses (by birth), Imperial Grand Duchesses (By marriage), Imperial Princesses of the Blood (by Birth) Imperial Princesses of the Blood (by Marriage), Princesses of the Old Nobility (by Birth. then by Marriage) Countesses, Baronesses, etc.  Position at court could increase the length of the train, as could the position of one's husband!
 
The Empresses' trains were carried by four (six?) members of the Corps des Pages (who wore gold-embroided short black frock coats over white doeskin trousers (which needed to be slid on after spreading talcum powder over the thighs, and which were then sprayed with water so that they would contract and fit snugly) and knee-high black patent leather boots.  The grand duchesses trains were carried by their ladies-in-waiting.
 
Women who attended court functions (women who were without position at court) were required to wear dresses cut in the same style -- but the color, type of fabric, length of train and amount of embroidery was very much restricted. "