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Reply #315
« on: January 12, 2009, 02:48:58 PM »
griffh Offline
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1909

•   Rasputin’s Descent Begins


By 1909 Rasputin, whose role within the Imperial family, though “veiled in the strictest confidence,” was unshakable, was loosing the confidence he once inspired among Court society who, kept in the dark as to his service to the Throne, began to wonder how it was that:

…such an uncultured, common muzhik was invited to enter the intimate surroundings of the Palace.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved November 22, 2008, http://www.facesofrussia.org/

Also the hate campaign against the Empress continued unabated.  Madame Bogdanovitch notes in her diary on February 6, 1909:

The young tsarina has had a severe attach of neurasthenia…which has been attributed to her abnormal friendship with Vyrubova.  Something isn’t right in Tsarskoe Selo.’  [Ref: Edvard Radzinsky, The Rasputin File, (2000), p. 91]
 
We know that the Empress health was indeed breaking down in 1909 but the cause was the growing strain of anxiety over the health of her son. 

While the Empress was at her weakest, the Head of the Okhrana, General Gerasimov growing concern over Rasputin reached a breaking point and the General became convinced that the semi-literate muzhik was a terrorist. 

According to Nelipa:

…Kurlov recalled that it was during the winter of either 1909 or 1910, the Imperial Court Commandant, Vladimir Dedulin, during his conversation with the Head of the Okhrana, General Alexander Gerasimov, announced that he was under the impression that Rasputin might be a “disguised terrorist”.  Since the Emperor and Empress had visited Anna Taneeva’s home to meet with Rasputin, Gerasimov was concerned why Rasputin was worming his way into the Palace.  That conversation had set off a chain of events that brought the Prime Minister Peter Stolypin into the circle.  Stolypin set the process into motion by directing the Minister of Internal Affairs, General Kurlov to assign gendarmes who would place Rasputin under their surveillance. The exercise lasted only for a few days until Nikolai II requested that Stolypin ensure that the surveillance was to be discontinued.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 12, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/

Nelipa states that prior to Stolypin’s audience with the Tsar: 

…a plan was devised so that Rasputin was not only to be watched but that a diary of his movements was to be initiated. In addition, a police agent was placed permanently in Pokrovskoye.  The agent’s responsibility was to submit a report about Rasputin’s lifestyle.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 12, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/

Apparently the first surveillance report included evidence of Rasputin’s:

…lurid affairs with girls and married women and that he was implicated in theft and other unspecified criminal activities.  It was this information that Stolypin brought before the Emperor, who appeared anxious that his privacy was invaded in this manner.  According to Gerasimov’s recollection, the Emperor had agreed not to meet Rasputin again because the evidence that Stolypin and Gerasimov presented that day had allegedly revealed that Rasputin was “not a reputable person for the Tsar to be associated with”. Nikolai II however requested that Stolypin “never again mention Rasputin”.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 12, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/

Stolypin’s biographer, Abraham Ascher, clearly side steps the entire issue of Stolypin’s relationship with Rasputin as he only has two brief references to the Rasputin in his entire book. 

Fortunately for us one of the references involves Stolypin’s actions against the semi-literate muzhik.  Ascher states that:

Stolypin considered it his duty to warn Nicholas that Rasputin’s role at court was widely viewed as a disaster, as a scandal that cast a shadow over the throne.  He delivered a report to the tsar on Rasputin’s disgraceful misconduct, but Nicholas was not prepared to ignore his wife’s wishes by banishing the monk from the court.  [Ref: Abraham Ascher, P. A. Stolypin, The Search for Stability in Late Imperial Russia, (2001), p. 335]

Though Ascher gives no date for this report, presumably it is the same one that Nelipa mentions as the result of Kurlov’s surveillance which must have occurred sometime around late 1909 or early 1910.  I would love to know if Kurlov’s surveillance report came before or after Madame Tucheva’s slander campaign against Rasputin.  If her campaign came after, one wonders because of her connections, if it was part of a greater plot being hatched against the Strannik. 

Nelipa states that after their audience with the Tsar, Stolypin and Gerasimov mistakenly assumed that the Imperial couple would not meet with the Strannik again.  However, as a precautionary movement:

…instead of stopping the surveillance as the emperor had requested, it was strengthened. The Okhrana agents had observed that not only had Rasputin continued with his visits at the Taneeva house, but that Alexandra was observed to be visiting there at the same time.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 12, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/

Ascher informs us that Stolypin, presumably because of the continued meetings of the Empress with Rasputin, in early 1911:

…the prime minister took the bold step of ordering Rasputin to leave St. Petersburg.  Rasputin obeyed, but the empress remained in touch with him; later that year he was allowed to return to the capital.  [Ref: Abraham Ascher, P. A. Stolypin, The Search for Stability in Late Imperial Russia, (2001), p. 335]

However Nelipa, whose is better informed than Ascher on specific issue, states that it was in October 1910 that Stolypin banished Rasputin because of the continued meetings.  Margarita states that it was fear for the Tsar’s safety the impelled:

…General Gerasimov and Stolypin co-signed a secret order authorizing Stolypin to use his executive power to banish Rasputin in October, 1910. The plan failed…The arrest order was left open, but Rasputin was nowhere to be seen, until they realized that Rasputin had mysteriously returned to Pokrovskoye, saving Stolypin and Gerasimov from the awkwardness of having to execute the arrest warrant. That arrest order had remained active until Stolypin’s assassination in September 1911, but by that time it would have been more difficult to enforce…  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 12, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/
 
Nelipa adds a tantalizing bit of information; that during the time Rasputin was eluding the Okhrana’s attempt to arrest him the semi-literate muzhik was seen:

…getting into Grand Duke Peter Nikolayevich’s vehicle…  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 12, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/

So apparently Rasputin had maintained some semblance of friendship with the Nikolaevichi that would not be breached until the Great War.   

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Reply #316
« on: January 12, 2009, 08:58:52 PM »
historyfan Offline
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No where in the 1914 correspondence is Rasputin’s advice on military matter sought.  Other than encouraging the Empress to wear her nurses’ uniform while on her inspection tours, and sending encouragement and blessings to the Imperial couple in his numerous telegrams, the semi-literate muzhik does fit Paléologue’s 1914 portrait any more than the Empress does.   


Griffh, this is going to be a rather vague question, and probably choosing this single item out of all the compelling information what you've posted is going to seem silly, but as I am still a "rookie" when it comes to the topic at hand, and an "Alix fan" so to speak, I feel I must ask this:

Since i do not have the correspondence between the Tsar and Tsaritsa in front of me I cannot cite specific examples but I was under the definite impression that Rasputin's advice on military and/or state matters was sought and given, although I do not believe it was anywhere to the degree that others would suggest.  One example is the ministerial changes.  I have read Janet Ashton's article on the Political Role of Alexandra Feodorovna, and as I recall, she disproved the theory that the Emperor operated strictly as a conduit from Rasputin via Alexandra, but that Rasputin did influence a couple of those changes, even to a minute degree.  I believe, along with Janet Ashton and yourself, that neither Rasputin nor Alexandra were responsible for the large turnover but neither did they stay away from the topic entirely.

Is that an erroneous position?

This just jumped out at me and I felt compelled to respond to this part of today's submission.

Thank you, again!
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Reply #317
« on: January 13, 2009, 10:48:20 AM »
griffh Offline
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Historyfan this is very important point and your very valid question gives me a chance to review the evidence for 1914.  My remarks referred only to the year 1914 and the importance of a chronology is that we can see how ideas and attitudes gradually change or remain the same.  Clearly from the evidence below we can surmise that either the French Ambassador was faking his December 1914 entry, using the propaganda of 1916 and trying to instill it in his book as if it had always been true, or else he was in the hands of poorly informed sources who completely misled him.  This is the case more often than not, as we shall have many opportunities to see, but I feel that Paléologue’s ridiculous description of the Empress in December 1914 more than likely belonged to a later period.     

Below is every reference to Rasputin in the Empress’ Correspondence from the Duckworth 1928 publication of her letters.  I have not checked Fuhrmann’s book for telegrams, but I am fairly certain that they will not contain any references to Rasputin unlike the tone of these excerpts below. 

ALEXANDRA’S CORRESPONDENCE WITH NICKY IN 1914
ARRANGED INTO THEMES

RASPUTIN

Letter No. 3. Tsarskoe Selo, Sept. 19-th 1914
He [Alexis] will quickly get better now that our Friend has seen him & that will be a relief to you.

Letter No. 4. Tsarskoe Selo, Sept. 20-th 1914
she [Ania] has now obliteration of veins, so Princess Gedroytz had been again to her and told her to keep quiet a few days - she had been by motor to town to see our friend and that had tired her leg. 

Letter No. 4. Tsarskoe Selo, Sept. 20-th 1914
Our Friend is happy for your sake that you have gone and was so glad to have seen you yesterday.

Letter No. 4. Tsarskoe Selo, Sept. 20-th 1914
He always fears Bonheur, [Nikolasha] that is to say, the crows [Stana and Militza] want him to get the P. throne or in Galicia that that is there aim but I said she should quieten [sic] him, even out of thanks you would never risk such a thing. Gr. loves you jealously and cant hear N. playing a part. –

Note:  Bonheur [luck] was the Imperial code name for Nikolasha which even Princess Yusupov used in her correspondence.  In her letter to Felix, written just prior to Nikolasha’s dismissal as Commander In Chief, the outraged Princess spurts:
 
…it is all vile and especially in the sphere of the Validols [the Tsar and Empress].  The “Book [Rasputin] has tremendous influence, and in a few days it will manifest itself in the area of a great change…I do not yet dare write about this and am not even supposed to know, but in my opinion it will all be disastrous.  If you haven’t, then Irina has probably guessed what I’m talking about.  I’m tired of writing such a complicated letter…the Validols instead of Bonheur [Nikolasha].  [Ref: Edvard Radzinsky, The Rasputin File, (2000), p. 332]

Letter No. 6. Tsarskoe Selo, Sept. 23-th 1914
Ania was offended I did not go to her, but she had - lots of guests, & our Friend for three hours.

Letter No. 7. Tsarskoe Selo, Sept. 24-th 1914
after wh. I flew for a half an hour with Olga to Anias house, as our Friend spent the afternoon with her and wanted to see me. He asked after you and hoped you would go to the fortress. –

Letter No. 7. Tsarskoe Selo, Sept. 24-th 1914
And our Friend helps you carry yr. heavy cross and great responsibilities - and all will come right, as the right is on our side.

Letter No. 8. Tsarskoe Selo, Oct. 20-th 1914
I copy out Gr.'s telegr. for you to remember:
"Having been administered the sacred mysteries at the communion cup, beseeching Christ, tasting of His body and blood, there was a spiritual vision of Heavenly Beautiful rejoining. Grant that the Heavenly Power be with you on the road, that angels be in the ranks of our warriors for the salvation of our steadfast heroes with joy and victory."

Letter No. 12. Tsarskoe Selo, Oct. 24-th 1914
Our Friend was very pleased we went to Luga and in sisters dresses and wants me to go about more and not to wait for your return to go to Pskov, so I shall spin off again, only this time must tell the Governor I suppose, as its a bigger town - but that makes it always shyer work. I shall take then linnen with me to the military hospital which Marie said needed things, or send it after. –

Letter No. 12. Tsarskoe Selo, Oct. 24-th 1914
Our Friend intends leaving for home about the 5-th and wishes to come to us this evening.

Letter No. 13 Tsarskoe Selo October 25-th 1914
Our Friend came for an hour in the evening; he will await your return and then go off for a little home. - He had seen M-me Muftizade who is in an awful state, and Ania was with her - it seems Lavrinovsky is ruining everything - sending off good Tartars to Turky and most unjust to all - so that they begged her to come to their Valideh to pour out their complaints, as they are truly devoted subjects. They would like Kniazhevitch to replace Layrinovsky, and our Friend wishes me quickly to speak to Maklakov, as he says one must not waste time until your return. So I shall send for him, pardon my mixing in what does not concern me, but its for the good of the Crimea and then Maklakov can at once write a report to you to sign - if you cannot let Kniazhevitch leave the army now (tho' I think he would be of more use in the Crimea) then another must be found. I shall tell Maklekov that you and I spoke about Lavri-Movsky already. He seems to be most brutal to the Tartars and its certainly not the moment when we have war with Turky to behave like that. Please don't be angry with me, and give me some sort of an answer by wire - that you "approve", or "regret" my mixing in - and whether you think Kniazhevitch a good candidate, it will quieten me; and I shall know how to speak to Masha Muftizade. - You remember he was angry she wished to see me about sending things to the regiment, and founded that Tartars must not show themselves in their dresses before us, and so on offending them constantly. He may do better in another government; I know Apraxin is of the same opinion, and was deeply grieved by the change he found. -
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 10:51:05 AM by griffh » Logged
Reply #318
« on: January 13, 2009, 11:04:14 AM »
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Letter No. 15 Tsarskoe Selo, Oct. 27-th 1914
How is the news to-day, I wonder - she says our Friend is rather anxious perhaps to-morrow He will see all better again, & pray all the more for success.

Letter No. 15 Tsarskoe Selo, Oct. 27-th 1914
I think, if its possible to stop perhaps at Dvinsk on the way to you, if there is time. R, is finding out about the hospitals (privately) - there we shall go as sisters - (our Friend likes us to) & to-morrow also. But being with you at Grodno we shall dress otherwise, not to make you shy driving with a nurse.

Letter No. 16 Tsarskoe Selo, Nov.17-th 1914
I only dread Ania's humour - last times our Friend was there

Letter No. 16 Tsarskoe Selo, Nov.17-th 1914
You always bring "revival" as our Friend says. I am glad his telegram came, comforting to know His prayers follow you.

Letter No. 20. Tsarskoe Selo, Nov. 21-st 1914
This is the wire I just received from our Friend. "When you comfort the wounded God makes His name famous through your gentleness and glorious work." So touching and must give me strength to get over my shyness. –

Letter No. 21. Tsarskoe Selo, Nov. 21-st 1914
Our Friend hopes you wont remain too long away so far. –

Letter No. 23 Tsarskoe Selo, Nov. 24-th 1914
Nevertheless I begged A. to wire to our Friend that things are very serious and we beg for his prayers.

Letter No. 27 Tsarskoe Selo, Nov. 28-th 1914
& our Friend wishes me besides to go, & so I must swallow my shyness.

Letter No. 28. Tsarskoe Selo, Dec. 1-st 1914
Our Friend wired: "Be crowned with earthly happiness, the heavenly wreaths follow you."

Letter No. 30 Tsarskoe Selo, Dec. 14-th 1914
Our Friend arrives to-morrow and says we shall have better news from the war Ania goes to meet him in town. –

Letter No. 31. Tsarskoe Selo, Dec. 15-th 1914
He must have arrived, A. has gone to meet him, I only saw her a second, she was with the Children in the hospital and then lunched with them.

Letter No. 32. Tsarskoe Selo, Dec. 16-th 1914
I spoke a second to Gr. by telephone, sends: Fortitude of spirit, - will soon come to you, will discuss everything. -

Letter No. 33. Tsarskoe Selo, Dec. 17-th 1914
This morning our Friend told her by telephone that He is a little more quiet about the news. –

Now lets quickly review the opening weeks of the Great War to gain a clearer understanding of how Rasputin had distanced himself from the Imperial couple.  I think it will also become clear from pro-war tone of Rasputin’s telegrams, referred to by the Empress above, that Rasputin was spending the rest of 1914 trying hard to regain the credibility he had forfeited by his outspoken pacifism.

If we look at Rasputin in the weeks prior to the War we find him in hospital recovering from a serious knife wound.  He had been stabbed around the same time as the Archduke Ferdinand of Austria and his wife were assassinated in Sarajevo.  

We also know that during those hectic and tragic weeks of constant negotiations just prior to the outbreak of the war, Rasputin sent a series of extreme pacifist telegrams to Alix and Nicky.  

Coryne Hall quotes an excerpt from one of the telegrams:

‘Let Papa not plan war,’ ran one, ‘for with war will come the end of Russia and yourselves and you will lose to the last man.’  [Ref: Coryne Hall, Little Mother of Russia, (2001),  p. 255]
 
Historian Margarita Nelipa quotes another telegram of Rasputin’s from his Tyumen hospital bed:

Dear Friend,

Once again I say a thunder cloud is above Russia, pity, much grief, darkness and no gleam of hope; tears now a sea and there are no measures, and blood? What to say? There are no words … horror. I know, all want war from you and truly, not knowing, for the sake of destruction. God’s punishment is heavy … You are tsar, father of the people, do not allow the senseless to celebrate and destroy oneself and the people. Think, that everything is different … everything drowns in great blood, destruction without end sadness. Grigorii.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 13, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/]  

Rasputin’s timing could not have been worse as his anti-war telegrams came just as the Imperial couple were in the midst of exacting weeks of consultation, including the deciphering a constant flow of contradictory and confusing telegrams from the Kaiser.  A fact that the young Empress is not credited for, but which we can see already from our research, is how she stood close to her husband during a crisis and offered her help.  Just prior to the delcation of war Alix was at her husband’s side helping to decode the plethora of telegrams is something that historians seem to have missed.  

In a never-quoted passage from Sir John Hanbury-Smith’s biography on Nicholas, Hanbury relates how the Tsar told him that:

…the Empress had been the greatest help to him throughout those anxious days and nights, working with him at the ciphers and as indignant as he was with the Germans. [Ref: Sir John Hanbury-Smith, The Emperor Nicholas II as I Knew Him, Alexander Palace Time Machine. Retrieved December 13, 2009 from http: /www.alexanderpalace.org/russiancourt2006/IV.html. ]

« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 11:28:48 AM by griffh » Logged
Reply #319
« on: January 13, 2009, 11:09:21 AM »
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Even the French Ambassador shares the same story.  During an audience with Paléologue, Nicky could not help but recall:

...the days immediately preceding the war, that harassing week from July 12/25 to July 20/August 2; he recounted even the most trivial details and laid particular emphasis on the personal telegrams which had passed between the Emperor William and himself:

"He was never sincere; not for a moment! In the end he was hopelessly entangled in the net of his own perfidy and lies. ... Have you ever been able to account for the telegram he sent me six hours after giving me his declaration of war? It's utterly impossible to explain what happened. I don't remember if I've ever told you. It was half-past one in the morning of July 20/August 2. I had just received your English colleague who had brought me a telegram from King George begging me to do everything possible to save peace. I had drafted, with Sir George Buchanan's help, the telegram with which you are familiar, which ended with an appeal for England's help in arms as the war was forced on us by Germany. The moment Buchanan had left I went to the Empress's room, as she was already in bed, to show her King George's telegram and have a cup of tea with her before retiring myself. I stayed with her until two in the morning. Then I wanted to have a bath, as I was very tired. I was just getting in when my servant knocked at the door saying he had a telegram for me. 'A very important telegram, very important indeed . . a telegram from His Majesty the Emperor William; I read the telegram, read it again and then repeated it aloud ... but I couldn't understand a word. at on earth does William mean, I thought, pretending that it still depends on me whether war is averted or not! He implores me not to let my troops cross the frontier! Have I suddenly gone mad? Didn't the Minister of the Court, my trusted Fredericks, at least six hours ago bring me the declaration of war the German Ambassador had just handed to Sazonov? I returned to the Empress's room and read her William's telegram. She had to read it herself to bring herself to believe it. She said to me immediately: 'You're not going to answer it, are you? '  'Certainly not.'

"There's no doubt that the object of this strange and farcical telegram was to shake my resolution, disconcert me and inspire me to some absurd and dishonourable step. It produced the opposite effect. As I left the Empress's room I felt that all was over for ever between me and William. I slept extremely well. When I woke, at my usual hour, I felt as if a weight had fallen from mind. My responsibility to God and my people was still enormous, but at least I knew what I had to do."   [Ref: Maurice Paléologue, An Ambassador’s Memoirs, (1925), pp.  ]  

By mid-August 1914 Rasputin had recovered sufficiently from his wounds to return to Petrograd.  The Imperial couple were so put off by the semi-literate muzhik that the Tsar ignored Rasputin’s repeated efforts to gain an audience.  

However, as Nelipa explains:  

…Rasputin was finally granted an audience on the evening of Monday, August 25 [1914] with Nikolai II following his return from Pokrovskoye; in which he attempted to convince the Emperor to stop the war. It was acknowledged that Rasputin had stated with his usual blunt style but with sincerity that:

“In war Russian people die and when it ends, even victory will turn out to be defeat.”  

…Matrena who claimed that she accompanied her father on this visit…recalled that the Emperor had responded in this way:

“There is a time to listen and a time to act. We have a huge opportunity to save the empire and the benevolent name of the Romanovs. You have served us with loyalty, we are aware of that. But what do you want from us? Become the Tsar? I am obliged to ask you not to publicly condemn us.”  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 13, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/]  

That Rasputin retired into the background after his failed attempts to end the war, is supported by Pierre Gillard’s remarks that by September 1914

… everything pointed to the fact that since his [Rasputin’s] return he was being more or less neglected. In any case, his visits were more and more infrequent. It was true that as Aleksey Nicolaevich had been so much better during the winter there had been no need to resort to his intervention, so that he had found himself deprived of what had been his great stand-by.  [Ref: Pierre Gillard, Thirteen Years at the Russian Court, Alexander Palace Time Machine. Retrieved December 13, 2009, from http: /www.alexanderpalace.org/russiancourt2006/IV.html. ]

Not only had the Imperial couple distanced themselves from Rasputin, but the war had turned everything on its head for Rasputin.  Russian historian, Nelipa tells us that gone were the:

…convivial parade of admirers who used to patronize the apartment, as were his enemies who had also become quiet.  The war’s beginning had changed everyone.  No one bothered Rasputin anymore and he was left to pursue his unwelcome pacifistic notions.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 13, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/]  
 
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« on: January 13, 2009, 11:19:39 AM »
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In what I consider to be the one of the most intelligent explanation for Rasputin’s alcoholism that started to rage out of control by late 1914, Nelipa surmises that Rasputin:

…became so depressed from the shame of his rejection he began to consume large amounts of alcohol exposing “the darkness of his soul”. He still remained obstinate about the immorality of war but his soul was dark and his prayers remained unanswered.291 The emotional wound he received from the Emperor was far more painful than the one that was inflicted by Guseva’s dagger in Pokrovskoye.  [Ref: Margarita Nelipa, Who was Grigorii Rasputin-Novii?, (2007), Retrieved December 13, 2009, http://www.facesofrussia.org/]   

We have often covered in great detail the Empress’ War Relief work so I shall not attempt to do that here.  However, I will quote Baroness Buxhoeveden’s statement that the Empress had gained unbounded popularity by December 1914. 

Baroness Buxhoeveden confirms that even the Minister of Foreign Affairs commented on this new image the Empress had created by her unstinting efforts and her public appearances in connection with the many War Relief organizations she had formed and was sponsoring: 

At the end of 1914 and the beginning of the following year the Empress again had a moment of great popularity.  Even people who were not in sympathy with her admitted this: for instance, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, S. D. Sazonoff, spoke of it to me on one occasion when I was lunching at the Foreign Office in 1915.  The Empress traveled about, she was seen in public, her work became known.  “One must take things personally in hand,” she had written to Princess Louis on March 23rd, 1915.  [Ref: Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden, The Life & Tragedy of Alexandra Feodorovna, Empress of Russia, (reprinted 1996), p. 195] 

I think that Maurice Paléologue’s December 1914 pen portrait of a half crazed Byzantine Consort’s dependence on an almighty degenerate monk is so far off the mark that we can safely considerate it a complete fiction. 

The real picture of Rasputin the emerges in December 1914 is that of a discredited and depressed peasant who was struggling with a growing dependence on alcohol to deaden the sorrow of his lost prestige with the Imperial couple; a man who had been rebuked for his fear of Nikolasha by the Empress herself. 


As for the real picture of the young Empress in December 1914, we see a picture emerge of a deeply patriotic and humane woman whose remarkable accomplishments for the War had gained her a new image of popularity that even her harshest critics, that is except for Stana and Militsiya, had to acknowledge. 

I can’t help believing that if the Empress’ health had held and if she had not had that terrible physical collapse in April 1915, she would have gained a permanent place of affection in the hearts of the Russian people. 

I therefore, once again state that we can safely relegate Paléologue’s December 1914 pen portrait of the Empress and Rasputin to the realm of historic fiction.   The tragedy was that this fiction became the accepted truth about the Empress and the semi-literate muzhik. 

I hope this clarifies my statement and again it was meant to refer exclusively to the year 1914.  As we shall see it is going to be quite a Herculaneum task in 1915 and 1916 to establish the true extent of Rasputin’s influence on the Imperial couple or the nature of his concerns about the war. 

In 1915 on we will be dealing with a Russian muzhik that did not play by anyone’s rules and someone who had no discernible political agenda.  I believe that is one of the reason’s he slipped through the hands of his enemies so often.  It would not be politics that would finally snare the Strannik from Siberia, it would be love.  Added to the complexities of gaining a proper sense of Rasputin’s character, we have already entered a period of intense war hysteria and spy mania that will complicate and confuse matters beyond belief. 

Thanks again Histroyfan for offering me this opportunity to explain my statement about the French Ambassadors misleading impressions of both the Empress and Rasputin in late 1914.       
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Reply #321
« on: January 13, 2009, 08:04:09 PM »
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Historyfan this is very important point and your very valid question gives me a chance to review the evidence for 1914.  My remarks referred only to the year 1914 and the importance of a chronology is that we can see how ideas and attitudes gradually change or remain the same.  Clearly from the evidence below we can surmise that either the French Ambassador was faking his December 1914 entry, using the propaganda of 1916 and trying to instill it in his book as if it had always been true, or else he was in the hands of poorly informed sources who completely misled him.  This is the case more often than not, as we shall have many opportunities to see, but I feel that Paléologue’s ridiculous description of the Empress in December 1914 more than likely belonged to a later period.     


*Slapping self in head*....as well-thought-out as I'd hoped my reply was, I forgot to consider that very important point - that you are indeed only referring to 1914!  That's a problem of mine - information collects in my head without categorization of any kind.  Sorry about that, griffh!
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Reply #322
« on: January 14, 2009, 09:53:27 AM »
griffh Offline
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Oh History-fan that slight oversite in no way discredits the heart of your very important question.  And again it gave me an opportunity to share some of the research that I had not shared before and also served as an introduction to the Sept. 1915 correspondence that I hope to be able to post by the weekend. 

And talk about mistakes, my lastest blunder below really stikes me funny. 

I think the word I was searching for below was Herculainian, not Herculaneum.  Though I guess the image of an ancient city buried beneath tons of volanic ash does make a fairly good metaphor for the task of unburying the Empress's reputation and uncovering her true character.
 

As we shall see it is going to be quite a Herculaneum task in 1915 and 1916 to establish the true extent of Rasputin’s influence on the Imperial couple or the nature of his concerns about the war. 
 

Historyfan please keep asking the tough questions as we will be facing a good many of them as we continue.  Just to say that I am eagerly awaiting Janet Ashton's new historic novel about the late Empress, "The German Woman."  It must be quite a popular item as I have it on order for quite some time.     
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Reply #323
« on: January 14, 2009, 07:25:38 PM »
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I think the word I was searching for below was Herculainian, not Herculaneum.  Though I guess the image of an ancient city buried beneath tons of volanic ash does make a fairly good metaphor for the task of unburying the Empress's reputation and uncovering her true character.
 

As we shall see it is going to be quite a Herculaneum task in 1915 and 1916 to establish the true extent of Rasputin’s influence on the Imperial couple or the nature of his concerns about the war. 
 

Historyfan please keep asking the tough questions as we will be facing a good many of them as we continue.  Just to say that I am eagerly awaiting Janet Ashton's new historic novel about the late Empress, "The German Woman."  It must be quite a popular item as I have it on order for quite some time.     

Is it...Herculean? 

This is A LOT of information to process.  It's such an eye-opener!  I've read bits and parts of the correspondence but never chronologically or in categories.  I absolutely love how Alexandra wrote.  Straight from the heart.  She probably dashed off an epic-length letter in ten minutes, encompassing several different topics, and to read just those letters, without the benefit of Nicholas' replies, or background information, really doesn't do them justice.  I'm losing sleep reading your research - I can't imagine when you're actually doing it!  lol!
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Reply #324
« on: January 15, 2009, 06:40:52 AM »
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Just to say that I am eagerly awaiting Janet Ashton's new historic novel about the late Empress, "The German Woman."  It must be quite a popular item as I have it on order for quite some time.     

Where did you order it from, Griff? - my publisher didn't list it on Amazon (US), but some individual sellers did, so if you have ordered it from there or indeed a bookstore it will depend on their supply chain. Amazon UK have been very quick, I hear, and the publisher themsleves can supply it direct (signed, if they have copies still), as can van Hoogstraten. (Any UK bookstore that gets books through Gardners as a distributer would be quick too, but I couldn't name them I fear!). i hope you get one soon as I would love to hear your thoughts.....
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Reply #325
« on: January 15, 2009, 10:54:09 AM »
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Just before Stana’s divorce a bewildered and dismayed Xenia noted in her diary for November 3, 1906, whilst on holiday in Biarritz:
Nikolai [Mikhailovich] told us the most unbelievable news, that Yury and Stana are to divorce, and that she wants to marry Nikolasha.  He saw Yury in Paris, who told him himself.  How awful, what disgusting nonsense!
Mid-November, the Empress expressed a different opinion. She thought it natural that Stana wanted a divorce, considering the things she had gone through with her husband.

Equally appalled, the Grand Duke Konstantin noted in his diary for November 6, 1906:
I learned with horror from my wife, who was at the Hussar celebration, that Stana is divorcing Yury and is going to marry Nikolasha!!!  Authorization of this marriage can only be seen as connivance, due to Nikolasha’s closeness to the Emperor, and that of Stana to the young Empress; it breaks all church convention, which forbids first cousins to marry.  Kyrill was not allowed to marry Ducky, because they were first cousins, now was Misha allowed to marry Beatrice.  In these dark times, divorce in the family is something inauspicious and deplorable. 
Despite Stana's closeness to the Empress at the time, the Empress seems to have taken the position that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.  She believed that Stana and Nikolasha would never breach the law by marrying without proper permission.

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Reply #326
« on: January 15, 2009, 01:15:52 PM »
griffh Offline
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I think the word I was searching for below was Herculainian, not Herculaneum.  Though I guess the image of an ancient city buried beneath tons of volanic ash does make a fairly good metaphor for the task of unburying the Empress's reputation and uncovering her true character.
 

As we shall see it is going to be quite a Herculaneum task in 1915 and 1916 to establish the true extent of Rasputin’s influence on the Imperial couple or the nature of his concerns about the war. 
 

Historyfan please keep asking the tough questions as we will be facing a good many of them as we continue.  Just to say that I am eagerly awaiting Janet Ashton's new historic novel about the late Empress, "The German Woman."  It must be quite a popular item as I have it on order for quite some time.     

Is it...Herculean? 

This is A LOT of information to process.  It's such an eye-opener!  I've read bits and parts of the correspondence but never chronologically or in categories.  I absolutely love how Alexandra wrote.  Straight from the heart.  She probably dashed off an epic-length letter in ten minutes, encompassing several different topics, and to read just those letters, without the benefit of Nicholas' replies, or background information, really doesn't do them justice.  I'm losing sleep reading your research - I can't imagine when you're actually doing it!  lol!


Oh Dear Me!!!  Yes indeed it is Herculean!!!  Humiliated as I am, I am equally grateful to arrive at the correct spelling.  Thanks again Historyfan.  I agree with you about the Empress ability to dash off her letters at record speeds.  I think that is one of the reasons that I included the theme Letters as it gives us insights as to the actual activity, the ink, the pens, the perfumed pages, the lamp lights, the exhaustion, the anticipation, the dogs crowding in, the children's laughter in the background, etc.  Thanks again Historyfan for finding the correct spelling!!!

Just before Stana’s divorce a bewildered and dismayed Xenia noted in her diary for November 3, 1906, whilst on holiday in Biarritz:
Nikolai [Mikhailovich] told us the most unbelievable news, that Yury and Stana are to divorce, and that she wants to marry Nikolasha.  He saw Yury in Paris, who told him himself.  How awful, what disgusting nonsense!
Mid-November, the Empress expressed a different opinion. She thought it natural that Stana wanted a divorce, considering the things she had gone through with her husband.

Equally appalled, the Grand Duke Konstantin noted in his diary for November 6, 1906:
I learned with horror from my wife, who was at the Hussar celebration, that Stana is divorcing Yury and is going to marry Nikolasha!!!  Authorization of this marriage can only be seen as connivance, due to Nikolasha’s closeness to the Emperor, and that of Stana to the young Empress; it breaks all church convention, which forbids first cousins to marry.  Kyrill was not allowed to marry Ducky, because they were first cousins, now was Misha allowed to marry Beatrice.  In these dark times, divorce in the family is something inauspicious and deplorable. 
Despite Stana's closeness to the Empress at the time, the Empress seems to have taken the position that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.  She believed that Stana and Nikolasha would never breach the law by marrying without proper permission.

Helen thanks so much for more invaluable information that adds such interesting depth to Alix' character.  What is so intesting to me here is Alix's point of view.  She is certainly not a prude as we had seen earlier with her view of Princess Olga Orlov's affair and miscarriage.  Alix certainly was ruled by her heart in such matters and it is such a different view of the accepted version of the Empress's views on immorality.  She clearly had a compassionate and balanced view of the difficulties that political marriages brought on both husband's and wives and the attempts that individuals made to find some form of happiness, though I am not quite sure that the pursuit of happiness was Stana's goal.  But then again I don't know.  I do know that the entire time Nikolasha was Commander in Chief of the Army, Stana was allowed only one visit to Stavka.  I am clearly put off by the woman however, perhaps Stana was truly looking for happiness.  At least that is what Alix's view appears to have been.  

Helen do you think that Alix credited Stana claim to be Philippe's medium?  



Where did you order it from, Griff? - my publisher didn't list it on Amazon (US), but some individual sellers did, so if you have ordered it from there or indeed a bookstore it will depend on their supply chain. Amazon UK have been very quick, I hear, and the publisher themsleves can supply it direct (signed, if they have copies still), as can van Hoogstraten. (Any UK bookstore that gets books through Gardners as a distributer would be quick too, but I couldn't name them I fear!). i hope you get one soon as I would love to hear your thoughts.....

Janet I ordered your book on Amazon US but yesterday I received Fontanka 16 which I had ordered at the same time as your book so I think I will have it soon.  But I think I am going to try and get a signed copy from the publishers as well.  That is so exciting.

I was very impressed by both Fuhrmann's and King's remarks about your book.  I can't remember which of the two historians said that they heard the authentic voice of the Empress.  I am paraphrasing but I think that was the gist of their remarks.  

I can't wait to read it and it will go on top of the pile on my nightstand.  

I am currently working my way through Richard Pipe's The Russian Revolution; Orlando Figes' A People's Tragedy; Figes' & Kolonitskii's Interpreting the Russian Revolution; and of course finishing up Harcave’s Count Sergei Witte and Abraham Ascher's P. A. Stolypin.  I started Ruud's' & Stepanov's Fontanka 16 yesterday afternoon and found it really interesting.  

It is certainly going to help clarify issues that will come up with the Empress' Correspondence.  The most startling revelation in the book so far was the secret Liberal Lodges that the Okhrana never knew existed.  As I understand it, the Lodges were based on the Masonic model and were formed at the same time as the Progressive Bloc in Duma in September 1915.  

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