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Offline Denise

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #165 on: February 07, 2005, 04:22:29 PM »
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So,  what do we know about AA's  Alexander Tchaikovsky?
1.  AA said he rescued her in a cart
2.  He had a brother named Serge
3.  AA doesn't recall very much of the trip to Romania to Bucharest...
4. AA recalled living for a time in a gardener's cottage on Svienti Voyevoda  [could have been Sfintii Voyevozi which is a street near the German embassy].
5.  He married AA in Bucharest.... in, maybe, a Romanov Catholic church..
6. Alexander Tchaikovsky was shot in the streets and AA believed he had been murdered by the Bolsheviks
7.  Serge T. , also, vanished...

The data above is Found on pps. 67-69  in Lovell's ANASTASA, THE LOSE PRINCESS.



But Bear, we KNOW that AA was NOT AN.  Therefore, her detailed story of her "rescue" is probably a fairytale.  Isn't it handy that all the pertinent individuals in the story are dead?  

I am not at all convinced that there is any truth to this story....

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #166 on: February 07, 2005, 04:23:18 PM »
Bear,

1. I believe that the Tchaikovskys that AA was talking about were Polish and not Russian.

2. What's the point of all this? Most likely these Tchaikovsky people didn't exist since we know that AA was not saved by them in Yekaterinburg since she was not Anastasia...

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #167 on: February 07, 2005, 04:24:17 PM »
Denise, our posts musthave crossed and we both just posted almost the same thing  :)

Offline Denise

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #168 on: February 07, 2005, 04:27:31 PM »
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Denise, our posts musthave crossed and we both just posted almost the same thing  :)


You know what they say about "great minds" Helen!!

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #169 on: February 07, 2005, 04:31:18 PM »
Following data found on line at:  http://www.polishroots.org/surnames/surnames_35.htm

>>Having said that, I must tell you Tchaikovsky is not a Polish spelling; it makes no sense at all by Polish phonetics and orthographics. I recognize, of course, as the spelling of the name of the Russian composer Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky. That's a kind of Germanized or Frenchified rendering of the Russian form, which is written in Cyrillic. If you take the Cyrillic letters and turn them into English phonetic renderings, it comes out more like Chaikovsky. I recognize this as the name spelled Czajkowski by Poles. All these different spellings are pronounced the same, "chi-KOFF-skee," with the first syllable rhyming with "why." In other words, as different as these spellings look, they are all ways of writing the same name; they only look different because different languages write different sounds in different ways.

Czajkowski comes from the noun czajka, "lapwing" (a kind of bird), but more specifically it would refer to the name of a place, something like Czajki or Czajkow or Czajkowa or Czajkowo; and those place names, in turn, would come from the word for "lapwing." Typically a place would get a name like this either because it was "the place of the lapwings," an area where these birds were abundant, or because the place was owned or founded by someone named Czajko or something similar. So Czajkowski means "one from the place of the lapwings" or "one from the place of Czajko or Czajek, etc." In some cases names beginning Czaj- can also derive from the verb czajac', "to lie in wait for," but I think most of the time Czajkowski would refer to a place named for the lapwing. Unfortunately, there are a number of places in Poland with names this surname could derive from, so without detailed info on a specific family, there's no way to know which place the name refers to in their case.<<
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Denise

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #170 on: February 07, 2005, 04:33:12 PM »
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Following data found on line at:  http://www.polishroots.org/surnames/surnames_35.htm

>>Having said that, I must tell you Tchaikovsky is not a Polish spelling; it makes no sense at all by Polish phonetics and orthographics. I recognize, of course, as the spelling of the name of the Russian composer Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky. That's a kind of Germanized or Frenchified rendering of the Russian form, which is written in Cyrillic. If you take the Cyrillic letters and turn them into English phonetic renderings, it comes out more like Chaikovsky. I recognize this as the name spelled Czajkowski by Poles. All these different spellings are pronounced the same, "chi-KOFF-skee," with the first syllable rhyming with "why." In other words, as different as these spellings look, they are all ways of writing the same name; they only look different because different languages write different sounds in different ways.

Czajkowski comes from the noun czajka, "lapwing" (a kind of bird), but more specifically it would refer to the name of a place, something like Czajki or Czajkow or Czajkowa or Czajkowo; and those place names, in turn, would come from the word for "lapwing." Typically a place would get a name like this either because it was "the place of the lapwings," an area where these birds were abundant, or because the place was owned or founded by someone named Czajko or something similar. So Czajkowski means "one from the place of the lapwings" or "one from the place of Czajko or Czajek, etc." In some cases names beginning Czaj- can also derive from the verb czajac', "to lie in wait for," but I think most of the time Czajkowski would refer to a place named for the lapwing. Unfortunately, there are a number of places in Poland with names this surname could derive from, so without detailed info on a specific family, there's no way to know which place the name refers to in their case.<<


Bear, I am befuddled.  Where are we going with this?  :(

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #171 on: February 07, 2005, 04:35:20 PM »
Various spellings:

Tchrnichovsky
Tczernigov
Tchaikovsky
Tchaikovitzky
Tchaikowska
Tchagovetz

Chaikovsky
[following same spelling with out the "T"]

Czajkowsky

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #172 on: February 07, 2005, 04:40:09 PM »
Helen asked for it this morning and I said I'd get back to her on this.

Let me go back and pull her post forward.

Quote
Bear, is "Tchaikovski" or "Chaikovski", one of the names that has the same origin (root) as "Schankowsky"? It sounds a lot like it, certainly at least as much as "Sasnovski" sounds like "Schankowski". Just a thought...


AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Denise

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #173 on: February 07, 2005, 04:41:23 PM »
That makes sense, then.  Thanks for catching me up... :D

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #174 on: February 07, 2005, 04:53:13 PM »
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Helen asked for it this morning and I said I'd get back to her on this.

Let me go back and pull her post forward.


AGRBear


Yes, I did ask, thank you for following up, Bear. The reason I asked about it was because I was thinking that if AA was FS, she may have subsciously came up with a name that sounded like her own. Just a theory, doesn't really matter that much...

Offline Annie

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #175 on: February 07, 2005, 05:12:07 PM »
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Yes, I did ask, thank you for following up, Bear. The reason I asked about it was because I was thinking that if AA was FS, she may have subsciously came up with a name that sounded like her own. Just a theory, doesn't really matter that much...


I always guessed it was because she picked it like Jan Brady did George Glass. Alexander was a popular Russian name, probably the first to come to mind, and Tchiakovsky, the name of the famous composer, would be typical things to come to mind when asked to invent the name of a Russian guy on the spot.

Tchiakovsky may be a Polish name but it's more associated with Russia because of the composer, I think.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #176 on: February 07, 2005, 05:18:05 PM »
Close to the top of this page [17] is my post #401 about the name not being Polish but Russian.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #177 on: February 07, 2005, 05:21:07 PM »
Thanks Penny.

Do you know what happen to the following cousins:

Alexander and Konstantin Ukraintsev (These cousins knew the Romanovs from the Crimea, where they had played with Michael Alexandrovich and Olga Alexandrovna.)


AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #178 on: February 07, 2005, 07:49:28 PM »
Does anyone find it odd, that so many pairs of brothers were involved in guarding the IF.

I am just fielding a question here, how would this bit of minutiae leaked out to Berlin and gotten to AA, newspapers?, magazines?  word of mouth?  Remember that she was in Dalldorf from Feb 1920 on. I am sure it was possible that news travelled, but this type of news?

Did Sokolov's dossier or report deal with rumors of escape as I can't remember whether or not it did.

Offline Annie

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life
« Reply #179 on: February 07, 2005, 08:48:33 PM »
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Does anyone find it odd, that so many pairs of brothers were involved in guarding the IF.




Not really because in the old days people joined and served together. These days, people joining could be sent anywhere. In the US Civil War, all regiments were usually from the same town or county, and in some battles with high casualties they lost much of the population of a town.