Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2  (Read 43035 times)

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Offline Alice

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2005, 06:27:44 PM »
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The Botkins were not as close to the children as they would want everyone to believe.


Yes, and it's a common misconception that they were close to the Imperial children. I've posted numerous times on various threads, requesting photos of Gleb or Tatiana Botkin with any of the Imperial children, and I've never seen one. Why? Because there aren't any - they weren't that close.

It also annoys me when people dispute Olga Alexandrovna's testimony about AA, because "she hadn't seen Anastasia since 1911". These same people then go on to use Gleb and Tatiana Botkin's testimonies as evidence of AA's claim. Olga Alexandrovna was both related to Anastasia, and there are numerous photos of the two together.  ::)

Offline Lanie

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2005, 06:29:33 PM »
Olga A. saw Anastasia last in 1916. :)  I've never heard people say 1911...

Offline Alice

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #107 on: April 24, 2005, 06:30:58 PM »
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Olga A. saw Anastasia last in 1916. :)  I've never heard people say 1911...


All the more reason not to discount Olga Alexadrovna's testimony! (And possibly I'm mistaken about people saying 1911!)  :)

Offline niteshade1312

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #108 on: April 25, 2005, 05:36:27 AM »
I am so glad there is a thread detailing this. I think that AA was an amazing 'character' and even though I still can't make up my mind whether she was AR, even though all the DNA and bones show that she isn't, I just can't get my head around the fact that she had so many physical similarities like the foot tubercolosis, which I have read somewhere, with the development of AA's foot, it could only have started from birth!

I think it would have been nice to have had AA actually be AR, but again this has created a wonderful historical debate!

Offline Olga

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #109 on: April 25, 2005, 06:27:10 AM »
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I just can't get my head around the fact that she had so many physical similarities like the foot tubercolosis....


Hallux valgus?

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #110 on: April 25, 2005, 07:59:07 AM »
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Hallux valgus?


About 50% of women have some form of hallux valgus, so not such an amazing coincidence after all...  ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #111 on: April 25, 2005, 11:08:56 AM »
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Hallux valgus?

I realize hallux valgus is ususally caused by wearing tight fighting shoes that constrict the foot, but I also thought that this was a herditary condition. Does anyone know>
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline niteshade1312

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #112 on: April 25, 2005, 08:39:02 PM »
I did read that it was a hereditory foot condition and that some doctor (can't remember who) said that AA must have had it from a young age because of how developed it had become.

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #113 on: April 25, 2005, 09:38:00 PM »
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I did read that it was a hereditory foot condition and that some doctor (can't remember who) said that AA must have had it from a young age because of how developed it had become.

Then I wonder who else in her family had it?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #114 on: April 25, 2005, 09:52:43 PM »
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Then I wonder who else in her family had it?


Hereditary doesn't always mean that someone in the immediate family would have it. It could be going back many generations. Besides, hallux vagus may not even be hereditary, they are not sure... I think the argument that it was inherent in Anastasia is exaggerated...

"What is it? Hallux valgus, often referred to as "a bunion" is a deformity of the big toe. The toe tilts over towards the smaller toes and a bony lump appears on the inside of the foot. (A bony lump on the top of the big toe joint is usually due to a different condition, called hallux rigidus.) Sometimes a soft fluid swelling develops over the bony lump. The bony lump is the end of the "knuckle-bone" of the big toe (the first metatarsal bone) which becomes exposed as the toe tilts out of place.

Are bunions hereditary?
Bunions tend to run in families, but that does not mean that if you have a bunion, your children will inevitably have one too.. The connection may be that bunions are a bit commoner in people with unusually flexible joints, and this can be hereditary. They are also commoner in women than in men.
 
What about shoes?
Bunions do occur in cultures in which shoes are not worn, but much less commonly. Shoes which squeeze the big toe or do not fit properly, or have an excessively high heel, can probably help to cause the deformity especially in people who are at higher risk anyway. "
(http://www.bofss.org.uk/html/hallux_valgus.shtml)


"More than half the women in America have bunions, a common deformity often blamed on wearing tight, narrow shoes, and high heels. Bunions may occur in families, but many are from wearing tight shoes. Nine out of ten bunions happen to women. Nine out of ten women wear shoes that are too small. Too-tight shoes can also cause other disabling foot problems like corns, calluses and hammertoes." (http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/thr_report.cfm?Thread_ID=204&topcategory=Foot)


Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #115 on: April 25, 2005, 11:17:54 PM »
Thank you Helen. I didn't think it was anyone in the immediate family or we would have known. But it sounds like heredity plays only a small part if any at all.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2005, 02:37:10 PM »
It was something that Penny mentioned some months ago about the timeline and how certain facts about FS [Franziska Schanzkowsky] didn't seem to match certain facts about AA.  An example used was the birth of a child because this process took about nine months.  Since then I've been thinking about the various timelines of  FS and AA.  Let's just assume for this thread only that we've never heard of AA and that we are trying to discover for an article the life of one Franziska Schanzkowky.

Let's make a list of what we know.

According to Penny and others we know FS was born  16 Dec 1896.

-----
Family chart

   
Anton Schanzkowsky m. (1) to 1890 to Josefina Peek  
 Issue:  [unknown]  
 
   
Anton Schanzkowsky m. (2) 1894  to  Marianna __NN__ b. 1866.   Marriage ended in divorce abt 1910/1912.  Both remarried.  [Mother remarried to ___NN___]    
     Issue:  
    2. Martin Christian S. b. 16 November 1895  
    3. Franziska S.  b. 16 December 1896 [date from Penny]  also listed in some books as  22 December 1896, baptized 24 December 1896  
     ?.*  Gertrude S.  b. poss. 12 Nov  1898 m. ____ Ellerick
                  Children:
                    1) Gertrud Ellerick m. __ Maucher  Child was:
                                (1) Carl Maucher
                    2)  Hedwig Ellerick m.  __ Lander
                     3) Margarete Ellerick   
                    4) Magdalene Ellrick m. __ Weber  Child was:
                                (1) Herbert Weber
    
   4.  Michael S.  b. 16 December 1899  
    5.  Valerian S.  (AKA Walther) b. 25 April 1901  
    6.  Felix S. b. 17 February 1903  
    7. Juliane Marianna S. (AKA Maria Juliana) b. 30 April 1905  
   
 ---  
Anton Schanzkowsky m. (3)?? to  ___NN3___    
 Issue:    
   1. [unknown]    
 
NOTES
*Gertrude S.'s official birthdate unknown and place in families above is at this time is not known, however, Gertrude did tell people her birthdate was 12 Nov 1898 which would place her fourth between FS and Michael.

-----

[ I just noticed the chart I pulled doesn't have the place where FS was born.  I'll go find that data and bring it here.]

On 13 Aug 1920 the Berlin police told the  FS's family that she had been a victim of the serial killer Karl Grossmann.

This thread should not get into any discussions that you believe FS was AA.  This is not about AA or AA being FS.

The boundaries of the timeline are:
16 Dec 1896 to 8 PM  [Berlin time] on18 Feb. 1920.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2005, 03:33:00 PM »
Timeline #1

>>>1896<<<
Date  of birth:
16 Dec 1896 "in Bororwihlas, a small town in Kashubia, one of the Polish Provinces at that time forming part of the German Empire."  When a German Province it was part of Pomerania-Kasubia.  See on modern map the area near Pozan [Posen]  / Wladyslowowo, Poland.

>>>1914<<<
"In 1914, shortly before the outbreak of the First World War, Franziska, at age eighteen, left the Polish provinces for Berlin. She worked as a waitress, met a young man, and became engaged. Before she could marry, her fiance was called up for military service. Franziska began working in a munitions factory."

>>>1916<<<

___ ___ 1916:  " In 1916, the young man" [FS], "was dating was killed on the western front."
19 Sept 1916:  According to jeremy, this was the date FS was declared insane

>>>19??<<<
"Franziska was declared "not cured, but not dangerous," and discharged. She was taken in, almost as a charity case, by Frau Wingender, who gave her a room of her own, Incapable of working long periods, Franziska was in and out of sanatoria; in between, she remained bedridden at the Wingender's apartment, complaining of headaches, swallowing pills, and reading history books from the local library"

1919
Around Christmas time [25 Dec 1919] FS visited her family

>>> 1920<<<
17 Feb. 1920 brother Felix received a birthday card from FS

Date reported missing:
9 March 1920:  "...Berlin police were duly informed by the Wingenders, on March 9, that she had 'left, leaving no address.'"
Source:  http://www.peterkurth.com/ANNA-ANASTASIA%20NOTES%20ON%20FRANZISKA%20SCHANZKOWSKA.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2005, 03:34:16 PM »
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...[in part]...

 FS WAS declared insane on 9/19/1916, and while the two, Gertrude and FS,  were living together.) So, who knows what else they deemed private and off limits?    
 


Anyone have the source for this date?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2005, 04:12:50 PM »
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jeremygaleaz: >>FS WAS declared insane on 9/19/1916, and while the two, Gertrude and FS,  were living together.) So, who knows what else they deemed private and off limits? <<

Was this declaration after the explosion in the factory?

How long were Gertrude and FS rooming together?

AGRBear     
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152