Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2  (Read 43139 times)

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rskkiya

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2005, 05:51:09 PM »
Vague?
Well, they were both "mammalian bypeds" of indo-european stock -- but that's about it.
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Offline Denise

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2005, 06:11:11 PM »
I think, that if FS did indeed become AA and start a career as GDA, then it was a combination of her mental instability and her desire to escape the life she had.  Although some of her descriptions have been that she was slow, she was obviously able to fall into a part and play it well.  AS Bear suggests, perhaps she read a great deal about the IF after the accident in the factory, and had a head start on the knowledge she would need later to become Anastasia.  

I think perhaps the con came later, when she had to re-invent herself repeatedly to "stay" Anastasia.  

Fascinating woman regardless.

Mgmstl

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2005, 12:04:34 AM »
My questions would be where and how did she read about the IF, and the intimate information she knew.
While I know it solves nothing, and she still is not AN.

How much was really known or could have be known
by a Polish/German factory worker, farm girl, possible rudimentary education.   Emotional problems, let's also not forget that factory work in those days was more like a 12 hour day....  

Where would she get the time and the money to buy the reading material.    Just curious.

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2005, 12:09:37 AM »
Quote
My questions would be where and how did she read about the IF, and the intimate information she knew.
While I know it solves nothing, and she still is not AN.

How much was really known or could have be known
by a Polish/German factory worker, farm girl, possible rudimentary education.   Emotional problems, let's also not forget that factory work in those days was more like a 12 hour day....  

Where would she get the time and the money to buy the reading material.    Just curious.


All good questions. The question is, how do we find the answers? I do think she got some coaching, but not until after she had supporters. So how did she learn as much as she did so that she was able to convince her supporters? Does that make sense?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Mgmstl

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2005, 12:16:43 AM »
Yes it makes sense Lexi.  BUT how much was actually known about the IF in those days between 1918 and 1920 when she was found and taken to Dalldorf.

Of course she had coaching at some point, we know after Gleb Botkin came on to the scene after 1926/28, but little is known of how she came about her information before that point in time.

As I have said in earlier thread, if she was a fraud, she was a great actress, truly believed in her part and how
she played it, and what a life long performance.  There must have been some emotional/mental unbalance or
instability that would take over in a person and allow this identity to take over their lives.  Interesting.

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2005, 01:52:03 AM »
Quote
Yes it makes sense Lexi.  BUT how much was actually known about the IF in those days between 1918 and 1920 when she was found and taken to Dalldorf.

Of course she had coaching at some point, we know after Gleb Botkin came on to the scene after 1926/28, but little is known of how she came about her information before that point in time.

 Interesting.


You said it better than I did. That is the point I was trying to make. How did she get the information before Botkin came along? Do you know if any of the medical records from the assylum were preserved? Or if they are available for public viewing? I don't imagine they are, but really have no idea.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2005, 10:12:56 AM »
It is my understanding that the asylum she was in was filled with old magazines of years past as reading material, many of them with detailed articles about the Russian and other European royal families.  I can't find the source just now, but will look around. Someone else may have it too.

Mgmstl

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2005, 10:50:52 AM »
Well I agree that magazines would be a good source, but for detailed information which she had knowledge of or obatined knowledge of, wouldn't it have to be more than magazines?  Someone had to be coaching her from some point.  

I don't see anyone who is a possible candidate for the job of coach, in those early years, UNLESS, she used the magazines for her base knowledge, learned how to play it up a bit and read people, then once Gleb came along he fed her "memory laspe or loss" with information needed to fill in the blanks...

I wonder if people were just so excited to think that they were meeting the Tsar's only surviving child, they managed to overlook her lack of specific knowledge, but then she is the one who mentioned the 1916 visit of the GD Of Hesse to Russia, when she mentioned in 1925 before Gleb became her mentor.

Offline etonexile

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2005, 11:00:28 AM »
Supposedly FS/AA was told by others in the hospital where she was taken after her suicide attempt that she looked like a photo in a German magazine of one of the former Czar's daughters....What else would a sad,hopeless young woman have had to cling to than a faint resemblance to a missing GD?...Very,very little...I don't blame FS/AA...I blame some of those around her who fed her delusions...perhaps for a chance at their own gain....

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2005, 01:59:01 PM »
Quote
Well I agree that magazines would be a good source, but for detailed information which she had knowledge of or obatined knowledge of, wouldn't it have to be more than magazines?  Someone had to be coaching her from some point.  

I don't see anyone who is a possible candidate for the job of coach, in those early years, UNLESS, she used the magazines for her base knowledge, learned how to play it up a bit and read people, then once Gleb came along he fed her "memory laspe or loss" with information needed to fill in the blanks...

I wonder if people were just so excited to think that they were meeting the Tsar's only surviving child, they managed to overlook her lack of specific knowledge, but then she is the one who mentioned the 1916 visit of the GD Of Hesse to Russia, when she mentioned in 1925 before Gleb became her mentor.


Questions:
What would anyone around her have had to gain by coaching someone so that they could claim to be AN?
Also, what do we know about how much she actually knew before Botkin, or anyone else, came on the scene? Again, what did they have to gain by participating in the fraud?
One thing I always wondered was what kept her alive? I am going to have to work to expalin what I mean here. Let's say (for discussions purposes) AN really did survive. It would seem she would have every reason to keep a low profile out of fear for her life. That seems like a reasonable asusmption to me. Therefore it would seem that if it wasn't safe AA took a huge risk. Yet, as far as I know there were no attempts on her life. So, either her enemies didn't believe her claim and had good reasons not to OR she was a coverup. Used to divert attention while the real AN lived her life out quietly somewhere else. Can anyone make any sense out of what I am saying?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2005, 02:01:56 PM »
Quote
UNLESS, she used the magazines for her base knowledge, learned how to play it up a bit and read people, then once Gleb came along he fed her "memory laspe or loss" with information needed to fill in the blanks...

I wonder if people were just so excited to think that they were meeting the Tsar's only surviving child, they managed to overlook her lack of specific knowledge, ...


I think, personally, that this is precisely what happened.


Offline Jutte

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2005, 02:05:35 PM »
i understand, Annie. i've never thought of it that way before. i particularly like your suggestion that AA was a diversion for the real AN.

something i need help with is, why would Gleb or Tatiana Botkin feed AA information. surely they were good friends of the real AN when they were children, and i cant understand why, if an impostor of a childhood friend showed up, they would help this person in their claims.
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Offline Lanie

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2005, 02:07:19 PM »
The Botkins were not as close to the children as they would want everyone to believe.

Offline Jutte

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2005, 02:18:58 PM »
ah, i didn't know that. i thought they were childhood friends from what sources say. particularly the pro AA ones. then if they weren't close to AN, what did they stand to gain by feeding AA info. were they under the dillusion that if she was believed she would inherit a fortune to which they would benefit?
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Offline Lanie

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2005, 03:33:03 PM »
Most likely, yes. That's what I think, at any rate.  A lot of the information AA spouted was wrong.  It reminds me of those psychics, those sorts of people.  They've got such great poker faces!  "So it's your...f...mother!" and they can just read faces like that, realizing recognition in the person they're talking to.  Wow, that made no sense, but I had this long discussion about this last night with someone.   ;D  AA seemed IMO to have been like that; gleaning information from people that way, etc.
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