Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3  (Read 44211 times)

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Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2005, 08:10:26 PM »
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No, there is no such grave. The story about Grossman is too vague. He wrote the name Sosnovsky in his diary.  There is no evidence whasoever that this refered to Franziska Schanzkowska.


Stephan,
I have always heard that the Berlin police notified FS's family in August 1920 that FS was murdered by Grossmann. Is that incorrect? They must have had some reason for connecting the missings FS as one of his victims.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline stepan

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2005, 03:41:17 PM »
I don´t know exactly when the Schanzkowski family was notified by the Berlin police about their supposition that Franziska was killed by this mass murderer. As far as I know the police diden´t have any real evidence but based this on Grossman´s diary entry where the name Sasnovki was written as one of his victims. Sorry I can´t be more specific on this Lexi!

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2005, 05:04:57 PM »
AA jumped into the canal in Feb 1920.

FS was reported missing 9 March 1920.

Grossman  had written on the 13 Aug 1920 the name which he spelled the way he heard FS's Polish name.  Hewasn't arrested until Aug of 1921.

The police told FS's family that she was killed by Grossmann on the 13th of Aug 1920.  I do not know the date the police met with the family of FS to tell them the news.

Those who do not find the two names as similiar, and, don't even think it's even close,  go over to the FS thread,  sometime back, I ran off all the names that were the same from the soundex I use for my genealogy research.  

If you continue to have a problem then ask yourself the following:
(1)The Berlin police didn't have any problem with the two names?  

(2)The FS family didn't have a problem with the two names.

So, if the Berlin police and the FS family didn't have a problem with the two names,  then why do so many of you?

The spelling of a name and DNA are two different topics.

Example:  How many of you pronounced the "u" in aunt or are your aunts "ants"?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline etonexile

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2005, 09:03:13 PM »
Spelling or misspelling of names is a human foible...DNA is science.....

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2005, 10:09:47 PM »
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Spelling or misspelling of names is a human foible...DNA is science.....


Not to mention that the Schankowsky family totally believes AA=FS, and none of the descendants were ever told that their Aunt Franciska was murdered.

Bear you are  totally spinning fantasy( as usual  ::))  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by jeremygaleaz »

Mgmstl

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2005, 11:01:34 PM »
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Not to mention that the Schankowsky family totally believes AA=FS, and none of the descendants were ever told that their Aunt Franciska was murdered.



Sources please?????????????????

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2005, 11:40:04 PM »
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Not to mention that the Schankowsky family totally believes AA=FS, and none of the descendants were ever told that their Aunt Franciska was murdered.

Bear you are  totally spinning fantasy( as usual  ::))  


Where did you get this? Her family denied that she was FS.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Annie

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2005, 08:19:00 AM »
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Where did you get this? Her family denied that she was FS.


We know that, but cannot rule out the very likely scenario that they did so to save both her and them a lot of trouble, legal, financial, not to mention embarrassment. They did say it was her at first, then claimed to 'change their minds'.  Did they really change their minds, or only change their minds about claiming her? Who'd want to expose someone to that kind of embarrassment and drag her home kicking and screaming and hating you forever, not to mention facing charges for filing a false claim and being responsible for legal stuff? This is one of those put 2 and 2 together things. Some of of you who cry 'source' seem to do so because you can quote one of those AA books and think that backs you up and throw off all other speculation that way. Strange that some of you love to speculate in other ways, but won't consider any other scenario on things that suit AA. Oh well! If we really want the truth we must consider every possibilty, right?

And, if she was so 'dead' why was she even brought up in the trial, why was her family even brought in? Obviously there were serious doubts that the results were final. Mistakes do happen.

I do hope Jeremy will post again and tell us more!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline etonexile

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2005, 09:48:47 AM »
As AA lived long enough to leave a tissue sample which was analysed by four labs...with the same results...I don't think she was served with noodles for Sunday luncheon...

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2005, 02:45:59 PM »
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...[in part]...
I do hope Jeremy will post again and tell us more!


A source would be very nice.

AGRBear


"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Mgmstl

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2005, 03:11:45 PM »
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We know that, but cannot rule out the very likely scenario that they did so to save both her and them a lot of trouble, legal, financial, not to mention embarrassment. They did say it was her at first, then claimed to 'change their minds'.  Did they really change their minds, or only change their minds about claiming her? Who'd want to expose someone to that kind of embarrassment and drag her home kicking and screaming and hating you forever, not to mention facing charges for filing a false claim and being responsible for legal stuff? This is one of those put 2 and 2 together things. Some of of you who cry 'source' seem to do so because you can quote one of those AA books and think that backs you up and throw off all other speculation that way. Strange that some of you love to speculate in other ways, but won't consider any other scenario on things that suit AA. Oh well! If we really want the truth we must consider every possibilty, right?

And, if she was so 'dead' why was she even brought up in the trial, why was her family even brought in? Obviously there were serious doubts that the results were final. Mistakes do happen.

I do hope Jeremy will post again and tell us more!



We who call for sources want to make sure that we are not getting false or non verifiable information, even if it is from one of "those" AA books you show disdain for.

I think every possibility needs to be explored, and as far as speaking for the Schanzkowska family, I think we need to look at the fact that not one of the siblings of FS ever signed an affadavit, and the nieces and nephews never KNEW their "Auntie" FS.....  I think no one REALLY knew her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Mgmstl »

Offline Annie

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2005, 06:01:31 PM »
As a genealogist, don't you constantly deal with info handed down as family history, though you never 'knew' the person? And haven't we *yawn* been through all these same lines a thousand times, and gotten nowhere, like a dog chasing his tail?

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2005, 08:30:23 PM »
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As a genealogist, don't you constantly deal with info handed down as family history, though you never 'knew' the person? And haven't we *yawn* been through all these same lines a thousand times, and gotten nowhere, like a dog chasing his tail?

Annie,
If you are tired of the discussion all you have to do is ignore it. You don't have to participate. Please do not distrupt the thread.

Now, back to topic.
Ok. If the diary entry in Grossman's diary indicated that FS was murdered in Aug. 1920, that it had to be after that that police told her family she was murdered. This would have happened after AA was already on the scene. Felix didn't go see her until 1927 after a lot of publicity about her claim. Don't you think that if AA was FS he would have recognized her before then and gone to see her? He thought his sister had been murdered? Or, was he so isloated that he missed all of the publicity surrounding AA's case? There should be records of the police reports on Grossman that would include when they went to see FS's family. Does anyone have access to those?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by lexi4 »
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Mgmstl

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2005, 10:16:53 AM »
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As a genealogist, don't you constantly deal with info handed down as family history, though you never 'knew' the person? And haven't we *yawn* been through all these same lines a thousand times, and gotten nowhere, like a dog chasing his tail?



Yes of course I do, but I am VERY careful about the heresay evidence I consider as valid.  Yes we have been through these discussions before Annie, but as Lexi stated if you don't like the discussion you don't have to participate.   ;D

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2005, 04:03:00 PM »
Berlin-Grossmann was not arrested until 1921.

His diary about the person believed to be FS whom he murdered  was dated 13 Aug 1920.

Berlin-AA jumped into the canal in Feb of 1920. Police check local possibilities as well as other areas like Hamburg .... Posen..... They brought in family members to see if AA the one missing..... Fingerprints and photographs were used...


Berlin-FS was reported missing on 9 March 1920.   I assume they were given a photo or photos of FS by the family.....

So,  the police would not have linked FS's murder until Aug. of 1921.

Through this investigation,  the family of FS was notified after Grossmann's arrest in Aug. of 1921.  The police told FS's family that she was murdered by Grossmann on the date 13 Aug 1920....  I do not know what the date was that the police told FS's family.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152