Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3  (Read 43204 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Here is a post about FS and her timeline.  You'll have to go to the original post to see what I've not copied:

She was answering Finelly's question: >>on Today at 11:08pm, Finelly wrote: 2.   Any research that's been done in to FS's life prior to the date of AA's emergence from the canal.  Do we have actual documentation of anything? <<


Quote

... [in part]....
I have a copy of the 1928 Court Investigator's Report in which he traveled to Borowy Las, interviewed her family, teachers and friends, and recorded sundry other impressions and items of interest for the German Court at the start of the trial.

There are sundry other pieces of testimony in the court transcript from friends and acquaintances FS made in Berlin. I have this transcript also.

Both are in German, and I have thought about posting them in translation, but I've been quite busy with my new book, and haven't  had time.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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>>Shortly before the outbreak of the First World War, 4 Aug 1914, Franziska left  Bororwihlas for Berlin, fell in love and got engaged.  Her future husband was called to the army, and Franziska got  job at a munition factory owned by the elecrical company AEG in Berlin.  In 1916 her fiance was killed on the western front.  Shortly after this tragedy, Franziska let a grenade slip out of her hands as she was working on the assembly line, and it exploded.  She was injured slightly in her head, but a foreman was blown to pieces in the accident before her very eyes.  She was deeply shocked, left the factory and worked on a farm, becoming a apthetic and spending long periods in bed.<< p. 224 in Klier and Mingay's THE QUEST FOR ANASTASIA.

1914 -
Shortly before the outbreak of the First World War, Franziska left  Bororwihlas for Berlin

1914-1916 -

1) fell in love and got engaged.  Her future husband was called to the army, and Franziska got  job at a munition factory owned by the elecrical company AEG in Berlin

1916
1)  her fiance was killed on the western front
2) Shortly after this tragedy, Franziska let a grenade slip out of her hands as she was working on the assembly line, and it exploded.

1916-1917??
1)  She was deeply shocked, left the factory and worked on a farm
2) becoming a apthetic and spending long periods in bed


----

Too add to FS's occupations,  Robert Massie wrote in THE ROMANOVS, THE FINAL CHAPTER P. 248:

>>...Franziska, at age eighteen, let the Polish provinces for Berlin.  She worked as a waitress...."<<

She worked on a farm.  Who's farm?   Where was it and for how long did she work there?  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline etonexile

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WOW...My cousin Selena has worked on farms and as a waitress....but I'd never have this much info on her....Amazing,truely.....

Offline etonexile

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WOW...My cousin Selena has worked on farms and as a waitress....but I'd never have this much info on her....Amazing,truely.....

Mgmstl

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Quote
WOW...My cousin Selena has worked on farms and as a waitress....but I'd never have this much info on her....Amazing,truely.....



EE, we actually have very LITTLE specific information on FS.  Not enough for a determination of identity IMO.  There are no known photographs but 1.  The family had sporadic contact with her.  

When I think of the information I have on my grandparents who were alive at the same time, I have  volumes.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2005, 03:51:52 PM »
As often happens, a subject appears on other threads:

Quote

....[in part]....

Here is some of the Grossman dossier I have been able to gather from other threads, and from the web.  There isn't a great deal out there yet.


 .....There are copies of Grossmann's trial transcripts -- or the German version thereof -- extant in at least one town in Germany.  Berlin, as we all know, was hideously bombed by the Allies at the end of WWII, and many, many buildings were destroyed along with their contents.  One of these buildings stored Berlin police records and archives; however, then as now, there were people interested in the phenomenon of what came to be known as serial killing.  At least one of these people, a doctor of psychology, had copies of documents from Grossmann's trial -- and his descendants allowed Greg and I access.
 
German court procedure is a little different from that of the US.  Here, a killer might be responsible for ten or twelve murders, but will only be charged with one or two so that there are still live cases against him should anything go wrong with the prosecution.  Grossmann's trial was not like that.  He was charged with a list of murders, some of them identified only by the name he placed in his own diary.  The evidence given was short and sweet and fairly d**ning -- he was caught red-handed (literally) with the semi-dismembered body of a young woman in his "shop."  There was also the evidence of his own hand, in the form of his diary.  Evidence was given in several specific victim cases, but not in all of them.  In the list of victims he was accused and convicted of murdering was the name "(female) Saznovski."  
 
This was the individual whom the Berlin police believed was Franziska Schanzkowska.  In the course of their lengthy investigation, in which they identified victims known by only one name -- like Saznovski -- information included in missing persons reports were cross-matched with the victimology, including what Grossmann had written in his diary.  What was written about Saznovski was sufficient for the Berlin police -- a highly regarded professional body -- to conclude that Saznovski was Franziska.  They broke the news to the Schanzkowsky family, and they laid Franziska to rest until 1927 when the Berliner Nachtausgabe disinterred her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Mgmstl

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2005, 03:53:29 PM »
Bear, that summary of what we had on the Grossman end of the case was for the Reveiw de Novo, to discuss the facts and sources of the various evidence in the AA case.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2005, 04:05:43 PM »
Just making posters aware that the subject is being discussed on another thread and if they are interested they click on the Michael G. wrote on top of your post within my post and it'll take them there....  Then they can see the posts around it.

I appreciated when others lead me to the same subject even if it's not the main topic on the other thread.

We can get scattered  ;D

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2005, 03:07:58 PM »
Do we know where FS went to school and for how long?  

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Richard_Schweitzer

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2005, 10:20:15 PM »
Yes there were records of her school. I have some notes someplace, but Penny can probably be more exact
Her school was in what is today Bytow, quite some distance from her family's house. Best I could gauge she wasin school until about age 16

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2005, 03:50:53 PM »
Thanks for the information Richard.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2005, 03:57:10 PM »
New Timeline List - 18 Aug 2005   
 
>>>1896<<<  
Date  of birth:  
16 Dec 1896 "in Bororwihlas, a small town in Kashubia, one of the Polish Provinces at that time forming part of the German Empire."  When a German Province it was part of Pomerania-Kasubia.  See on modern map the area near Pozan [Posen]  / Wladyslowowo, Poland.  

>>>ca 1902/3  to ca 1912<<<

FS attended school and for some of the time or all of the time was in "Bytow, quite some distance from her family's house"
 
>>>1914<<<  
"In 1914, shortly before the outbreak of the First World War, Franziska, at age eighteen, left the Polish provinces for Berlin. She worked as a waitress, met a young man, and became engaged. Before she could marry, her fiance was called up for military service. Franziska began working in a munitions factory."  
 
>>>1916<<<  
 
___ ___ 1916:  " In 1916, the young man" [FS], "was dating was killed on the western front."  
19 Sept 1916:  According to jeremy, this was the date FS was declared insane  
 
>>>19??<<<  
"Franziska was declared "not cured, but not dangerous," and discharged. She was taken in, almost as a charity case, by Frau Wingender, who gave her a room of her own, Incapable of working long periods, Franziska was in and out of sanatoria; in between, she remained bedridden at the Wingender's apartment, complaining of headaches, swallowing pills, and reading history books from the local library"  
 
1919  
Around Christmas time [25 Dec 1919] FS visited her family  
 
>>> 1920<<<  
17 Feb. 1920 brother Felix received a birthday card from FS  
 
Date reported missing:  
9 March 1920:  "...Berlin police were duly informed by the Wingenders, on March 9, that she had 'left, leaving no address.'"
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline lexi4

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2005, 11:11:02 PM »
In light of discussions on one of the other threads, I thought I  would bump this one up.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2005, 11:48:20 PM »
Quote
They broke the news to the Schanzkowsky family, and they laid Franziska to rest until 1927 when the Berliner Nachtausgabe disinterred her.  


I pulled this from what I assume was originally a post by Penny Wilson quoted by Michael G. Does it mean that there is a grave marked "Franziska Schankowska" extant?
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Offline stepan

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Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #3
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2005, 06:33:43 PM »
Quote

I pulled this from what I assume was originally a post by Penny Wilson quoted by Michael G. Does it mean that there is a grave marked "Franziska Schankowska" extant?


No, there is no such grave. The story about Grossman is too vague. He wrote the name Sosnovsky in his diary.  There is no evidence whasoever that this refered to Franziska Schanzkowska.