Author Topic: Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918  (Read 30802 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2005, 02:09:42 PM »
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Identifying hair and eye color is a very subjective process, especially when dealing with black and white photographs... Anastasia Nikolaevna, from every account I've read, had dark reddish-blonde hair and very blue eyes. In her photographs, however, she appears darker than her sisters (except for Tatiana) with... brown hair and dark eyes!

As far as I am concerned, Dr. Utkin probably made up his "treatment" of "Grand Duchess Anastasia" out of information that was supplied to him from the Bolsheviks. Undoubtedly he was given a photograph of the real Anastasia and told to come up with a story based on some general outline, while being sure to describe her from her appearance in the photo. "Dark eyes, brown hair," is what most people would come up with when asked to describe a black and white photograph of the young Anastasia Nikolaevna.


Color of eyes:
 What a great topic.  I remember reading my grandfather's naturalization papers and it said he had brown eyes, I thought WHAT,  the man I remembered had my color eyes which is hazel.  So,  I got on the phone.  I called ten of my grandfather's children.  I asked them what color eyes did their father have.  Everyone remembered his eyes being their own color eyes and this varied from brown to blue.  So,  I sat and thought about this.  Yes, this can be true.  Hazel eyes can change  due to the reflection of a color that a person is wearing.  So,  to prove the point they were hazel,  I took my scanner and enlarge some very old photographs and some photographs which were taken just before he passed away.  I was right,  his eyes changed with the color he was wearing.   Hazel eyes can appear brown to green to blue.

Dr.  Utkin  :  Elisabeth: >>As far as I am concerned, Dr. Utkin probably made up his "treatment" of "Grand Duchess Anastasia<<

 Then, again, he may have been telling the truth.  And, according to the court records, the lawyers who were on the opposite side of AA, went off into a tangent.... Farther questions were not asked of Dr. Utkin. And somehow the attention was drawn to fingerprints being found on an old book of GD Anastasia and if these fingerprints could be left off and be compared to AA's.....  It was said they may end up destroying the evidence and the book.... The judge closed for the day and for the next few months.  End of Dr. Utkin's statement.  And,  I'm not sure if there was any real cross examination on what Dr. Utkin said.  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Alexa

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2005, 09:00:35 AM »
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...his eyes changed with the color he was wearing.   Hazel eyes can appear brown to green to blue....



In my case, it's how bad the hangover is. ::) Or how tired I am.  In both of those cases, my eyes are very, very green.

I agree it's very easy to be misled by hazel eyes.  My mom, untill a few years ago, always thought my eyes were brown.  I had to make her look at my eyes up close to convince her they weren't.

Alexa

Offline Helen_Azar

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2005, 09:12:14 AM »
I think it's relatively easy to mistake hazel eyes for brown, but I don't see how anyone could mistake brown eyes for blue.  ???

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2005, 10:11:34 AM »
Some hazel eyes already have flecks of golden brown and when we wear brown,  the hazel reflects the brown.  When we wear blue, the hazel reflects the blue.  When we wear green, the hazel relfects the green.  This just is the way they are.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Alexa

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2005, 01:12:55 PM »
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I think it's relatively easy to mistake hazel eyes for brown, but I don't see how anyone could mistake brown eyes for blue.  ???


My dad's eyes are hazle, but can look blue, albeit a light blue, maybe even a gray.  Mistaking brown for blue...yes, that's a trickier.  Then again, eye color is just so tricky, and one of the last traits people tend to remember about a person.

Alexa

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2005, 11:12:57 AM »
Same goes with the color of hair.  Dark blonde hair can be called brown hair but blondes prefer their hair to be called "dark blonde".  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Candice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2005, 11:20:27 AM »
From members comments on eye colour it seems possible that Dr. Utkin's description could have been correct and Anastasia's eye colour may have changed to Hazel. Does anyone have proof of any one person describing Anastasia as having Grey-Blue eyes in 1917/18.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Candice »

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2005, 03:04:49 PM »
Greg King said:

>>Kirsta began investigating deliberate Bolshevik rumors that the whole family had been moved from Ekaterinburg; he collected testimony about Nicholas being taken off in chains on a train to Perm.  And he followed this by eagerly believing anything that seemed to confirm these stories.<<

How is this any different than other investigators who think they are following the correct path of discovery?    

I tend to think stating, " ...eagerly believeing anything..." is open to debate unless he wrote these words in his reports.


Greg King added: >>  What you need to understand is that the Bolsheviks were deliberately spreading false information, and much of it was that invstigated by Kirsta that suggested the women were saved.  You have only to think of the source here-te sister of a high-ranking Bolshevik-to understand the dynamics behind the tale-why else would she be out talking about what was obviously a lie?  Everything we read, and all the examinations and testimonies in the dossiers, back this up-most of it unpublished.<<

No, Greg, what you need to understand, it was the  the Bolsheviks who were capable of destroying and fabricating evidence about what really happened.  And,  they are very very good at spin.  They take what's close to the truth and then "spin" which was the  Bolsheviks had wanted people to believe they didn't kill Alexandra, her daughters and Alexei so they spread some rumors..... Was it closer to the truth and had they held some of the IF in Perm?  Had  some of them had been rescued, then recaptured?  Did the Bolsheviks have to "ReSpin"? Yes.  At some point in time between July 1917 and 1920/1  the nine bodies were in the grave in Pig's Meadow....   But there were two still missing. Children of Nicholas II's.  Anastasia/Marie and Alexei.  The missing two children left someone, who, by then,  was  down the creek without a paddle and had to get his boat back  upstream....    Well, never mind, some Bolsheviks said, because no one will find the bodies and even if they did,  no one could tell who they were so what's-the-difference.... And, certainly, no one would believe Alexei survived...  He was a sick boy....  Years later.  There appeared some curious people.... the process of DNA and the counting of bones....  Guess what?  It is certain, now, there are two missing children of Nicholas II's.

So, someone isn't telling the truth. And, I point my finger at the men who claimed they killed the eleven in the Impatiev House on the night of 16/17 July 1918.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Elisabeth

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2005, 04:56:13 PM »
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When Dr. Utkin last saw Anastasia the description of his patient was that she had dark eyes and brown hair. Although certain people remember that the "real" Anastasia, as a child, had "Grey-blue eyes" and "brown hair," children's eyes sometimes do change colour as they grow up.  


Well, if that's the case, and somehow Anastasia Nikolaevna's eyes turned from grey-blue to brown in the space of a year or two, then it's time to dismiss most of the eyewitnesses who identified Anna Anderson as Anastasia. Because many of them identified AA as AN partly on the basis of her blue eyes, which supposedly so resembled the tsar's.

On the other hand - to be fair! - depending on the light, even very blue eyes can appear so dark as to be brown - if they have a large enough pupil. It has nothing to do with any actual changing of eye color - it's simply a question of the size of the pupil - and a trick of the light.

Still, to be honest, I have to admit that I found Dr. Utkin's description of his examination of "Anastasia Nikolaevna" rather disgusting. It was more than vaguely salacious, with a prurient undertone I found deeply distasteful. Our Dr. Utkin (Dr. Duck, in Russian!) sounds like the kind of good citizen who would totally invent this sort of encounter with a famous person. The sexy "Anastasia Nikolaevna" he describes bears little or no resemblance to the "tolstaya" ("fat") Anastasia Nikolaevna of the Ipatiev House.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Elisabeth »
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Offline Candice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2005, 08:19:47 PM »
Yes, eye colour is important. This may be a reason why no one recognised the real Anastasia. The authorities themselves assumed that she had grey-blue eyes. I notice in photos that Anastasia looks thinner than Maria, especially during their imprisonment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Candice »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2005, 08:28:28 PM »
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On the other hand - to be fair! - depending on the light, even very blue eyes can appear so dark as to be brown - if they have a large enough pupil. It has nothing to do with any actual changing of eye color - it's simply a question of the size of the pupil...


Generally, pupil dilation is caused by illicit drugs!  ;)

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2005, 08:49:53 PM »
I presume there wasn't any 150 watt lightbulb in the room and eyes dialate due to darkness [in this case, it was probably dim light]  in order to bring in more light to see.

Dr. Utkin was questioned for six hours by Anastasia lawyer/ lawyers.  Nothing he said was contradicted by the opposite side accept a outburst of words which went on for a time about how Dr. Utkin's testimony was rubbish.  If it was rubbish, then why didn't the oposite side cross examine Dr. Utkin?  They didn't do it on this day nor did they ask for him to return to continue examination of his statement.  Therefore, what he said stands as it is.

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« Last Edit: July 17, 1983, 03:07:57 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Alice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2005, 04:26:10 AM »
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I think it's relatively easy to mistake hazel eyes for brown, but I don't see how anyone could mistake brown eyes for blue.  ???


Maybe she had "David Bowie" eyes? (One blue, one brown).

:D

Offline Michelle

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2005, 07:16:07 PM »
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Still, to be honest, I have to admit that I found Dr. Utkin's description of his examination of "Anastasia Nikolaevna" rather disgusting. It was more than vaguely salacious, with a prurient undertone I found deeply distasteful. Our Dr. Utkin (Dr. Duck, in Russian!) sounds like the kind of good citizen who would totally invent this sort of encounter with a famous person. The sexy "Anastasia Nikolaevna" he describes bears little or no resemblance to the "tolstaya" ("fat") Anastasia Nikolaevna of the Ipatiev House.


Utkin thought Anastasia was sexy? ???

Offline Annie

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2005, 07:54:02 PM »
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Maybe she had "David Bowie" eyes? (One blue, one brown).

 :D


Unfortunately that's not genetic or natural. One eye has a paralyzed pupil because of a childhood injury. When he was in sixth grade he got into a fight and one of his eyes was poked out. They thought he would go blind in it. He didn't, but it was damaged and changed appearance.

BTW I like your avatar, I was rooting for her at the Olympics. She has the same name as a famous pre-Revolutionary ballerina.