Author Topic: Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918  (Read 32133 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2004, 12:59:32 PM »
First I read about this rescue or some grave in Kent....

I have no answers,  just more questions...

I assume,  someone has checked all of this, so,  someone else will have to give us more.

AGRBear

PS:

No photos of her in THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Candice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2004, 01:51:54 PM »
I read it too.  I also read it in 'The Romanov Conspiracies' by Michael Occleshaw, pg. 160 chapter 17. There is a photo of the claimant and also her grave.

In my opinion the photo isn't a very clear one.  To me she doesn't really look like Tatiana but more like an older version of Maria.  It would be interesting to know what you think.

Candice
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Candice »

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2004, 01:57:07 PM »
I think someone mentioned this book to me on another thread.

I don't have it:  The Romanov Conspiracies' by Michael Occleshaw.

Thanks for the information.

AGRBear

PS  Same Tatiana?
Quote
To add to your claimant bibliography:
NO RESTING PLACE FOR A ROMANOV, [the Kent Tatiana] Sue Edwards, 1998. Privately printed, isbn 0 9529292 1X
And
THE CONSPIRATOR WHO SAVED THE ROMANOVS by Gary Null, 1971 no isbn [claims they all survived, esp. pushes the Goleniewsi story].
Cheers,
Robert
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Alice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2004, 09:44:15 PM »
I'd like to know what happened to the locks of hair. It could prove valuable for DNA testing. It could be tested against the sets of remains for the three Grand Duchesses to determine which Grand Duchess is missing.

(Since we have accounts of the colour of each girl's hair)

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2004, 10:16:08 AM »
More on the hair which I wrote on another thread:

Quote
The hair they were talking about wasn't the hair that was cut when they had the measles.  That hair was different and used to wear as buns etc..  The hair they talked about was hair that showed someone/all had trimmed their hair...  I think in one area used by Nicholas II it showed he may have trimmed /shaved off his beard...  or mustache,  I forget which.... I'll have to go take a look.

Anyone remember the page on the hair?  I can't seem to find the page...

So,  what else were they inaccurately  telling us which the communists have disproven?

I'm not trying to spare with you.  I just like to know the points you have and let's go point by point so I can see the errors in my judgement/ or just wasn't aware of new evidence....

AGRBear

PS  Found it on page 67 and 68 of Summers and Mangold's book THE FILE ON THE TSARS:

"In the bathroom...short pieces of hair cuttings."

"...In the vestibule....more strands of hair...."

"...a box with cut hair of four different colours...."  I assume, the hair Annie talks about was in the box, and, is mentioned, also.

As for Nicholas II's clippings,  not in this book.  Anyone know where I might have picked up that information.  My memory is void on the source at this time.
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2005, 10:20:34 AM »
Hasn't anyone wondered why Mutnykh's tells us in her testimony that she saw only three daughters and not four?


Mutnykh's story tells us, also,   she was not alone when she saw Alexandra and three of her daughters.  With her was Anna Kostina, the secretary to  Grigory Zinoviev.  [Note: she said three daughters, not four.]

 AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Candice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2005, 01:07:56 PM »
Reply #20: AGRBear, in which book is Mutnykh's testimony of seeing three daughters with Alexandra.  I would like to look that up.

Candice



Offline Georgiy

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2005, 02:13:26 PM »
I think it's probably in File on the Tsar.

Offline Candice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2005, 02:30:08 PM »
Thank you Georgiy, I have a copy.

Offline AGRBear

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2005, 05:48:26 PM »
Scroll up and you'll see earlier post #8 with pages and other data.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Candice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2005, 04:04:41 PM »
When Dr. Utkin last saw Anastasia the description of his patient was that she had dark eyes and brown hair. Although certain people remember that the "real" Anastasia, as a child, had "Grey-blue eyes" and "brown hair," children's eyes sometimes do change colour as they grow up.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Candice »

Offline Elisabeth

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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2005, 05:01:51 PM »
Identifying hair and eye color is a very subjective process, especially when dealing with black and white photographs... Anastasia Nikolaevna, from every account I've read, had dark reddish-blonde hair and very blue eyes. In her photographs, however, she appears darker than her sisters (except for Tatiana) with... brown hair and dark eyes!

As far as I am concerned, Dr. Utkin probably made up his "treatment" of "Grand Duchess Anastasia" out of information that was supplied to him from the Bolsheviks. Undoubtedly he was given a photograph of the real Anastasia and told to come up with a story based on some general outline, while being sure to describe her from her appearance in the photo. "Dark eyes, brown hair," is what most people would come up with when asked to describe a black and white photograph of the young Anastasia Nikolaevna.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Elisabeth »
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Offline Annie

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2005, 08:30:39 PM »
Quote
children's eyes sometimes do change colour as they grow up.  


Not really, babies are always born with blue eyes but they change for good by at least age 18 months. My little girl had blue until she was about 5 months, then the first brown specks came in, but it took them over a year to turn totally brown. My boy's eyes were dark blue but turned lighter blue. But once they turn they don't ever change again, maybe some elderly folks' eyes fade, but childrens' eyes don't change from say age 5 to 16, what you have at 2 is what you get. (this does not mean that eyes can't look different colors in light or darkness or with different color clothing, just that they don't really change.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Alexa

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2005, 01:54:23 PM »
Quote

Not really, babies are always born with blue eyes but they change for good by at least age 18 months. My little girl had blue until she was about 5 months, then the first brown specks came in, but it took them over a year to turn totally brown. My boy's eyes were dark blue but turned lighter blue. But once they turn they don't ever change again, maybe some elderly folks' eyes fade, but childrens' eyes don't change from say age 5 to 16, what you have at 2 is what you get. (this does not mean that eyes can't look different colors in light or darkness or with different color clothing, just that they don't really change.)


My eyes actually changed from brown to hazel sometime during childhood.  I can't remember exactly when, but I remember looking in the mirror one day and noticing specks of green in the brown.  By the time I was 17, they had finished chaning.  Funny, thouhg, cuz all my official documents have me down as having brown eyes, when in fact they're not.  Anyway, eyes can change color in childhood, but I'm not sure how often this happens.  
Alexa

Offline Candice

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Testimony of Sightings After 16 July 1918
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2005, 09:51:21 AM »
Alexa, I agree. My children's had clear blue eyes but one was 9 when her eyes changed to hazel and my other child's eyes changed to green at the age of 14.  Children's eyes definitely do change. Hair colouring also changes.

I have noticed that Tatiana's eyes in some black and white photos show a clear light grey colour.

It could be that Anastasia's eye colour changed too and Dr. Utkin was correct in his description.

Elisabeth, where did you read that the Bolsheviks sent Dr. Utkin the description on Anastasia N.  In 'The File on the Tsar' pgs. 338 and 9.. Dr. Utkin is communicating with his patient when treating her and calling her by her name.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Candice »