Author Topic: Rasputin's Murder  (Read 149592 times)

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Offline Sarai

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2004, 02:34:20 PM »
investigator,
Regarding the poisoning of Rasputin and his apparently miraculous survival of it, there is an interesting explanation in The Life and Tragedy of Alexandra Feodorovna by Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden: "It is enough to say that Rasputin was first offered poisoned wine, the amateur murderers not knowing that for the poison they chose alcohol is an antidote. Their victim survived what appeared to be a deadly dose."

I have also read in a statement on a website that: "In the Rasputin poisoning, one reason that he seemed not to be affected by the ingestion of KCN [potassium cyanide] was that it might have decomposed to HCN [hydrogen cyanide] which subsequently evaporated." So, there are two possible explanations for his seemingly supernatural survival of the poisoning.

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2004, 09:16:34 AM »
I agree with what Rob wrote and also with what Greg has written above....

Regarding Rasputin I think Alexandra would have remembered how Christ Himself was criticized for consorting with tax collectors and people of low repute - even women of bad reputation and this would have allowed her to gloss over some of his activities.

I think the idea that Rasputin used hypnosis on Aleksey or Anna Vyrubova when they were ill is not accurate, and we must attribute his obvious powers to something else.  Let me make a bad comparison - has anyone read the bio of Aimee Semple McPherson by Robert Epstein (I think I got that right)?  He writes that many people were really healed at Aimee's services - but she ended up tarnished by some of the things she did later.  (Some people of the time made comparisons between her and Rasputin)  Even so the healings seemed to have continued.  If there is a 'gift of healing' I don't profess to understand it and why some people have it and others don't.

I believe completely that Aleksey's recoveries are miraculous.  Where this came from is not clear to me.  Perhaps it was the prayers of his family and the Russian people;  perhaps it was God's pity for this poor child;  perhaps it was Rasputin....

Bob

Offline Todd

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2004, 09:54:59 PM »
Here is some information you might find useful:

"The autopsy did not reveal the presence of any poison," writes Major-General Alexander Spiridovich, assistant to the palace commander.

Spiridovich, Alexander I., Raspoutine, Paris: Payot, 1935, p. 402

Many contradictory reports have been cited describing Rasputin's corpse when it was recovered from the waters of the Little Nevka. Some writers claim that Rasputin was still alive when he was thrown in the water and that his right hand had frozen in making the sign of the cross. The author of one book also claimed that Rasputin had been castrated by Yussupov when the latter flew into a rage following the murder. The official autopsy, performed by Professor Dimitry Kosorotov on December 20th, denied both reports:

On December 19th (O.S.) I was alerted and invited by a letter from the investigator to conduct an autopsy on the body of Rasputin which was to begin on the morning of December 21st in the chapel of the Chesmenskaya Hospice...

During the autopsy quite a number of injuries were found, many of which were caused posthumously. The entire right side of the head was shattered and flattened as a result of a contusion to the body during its fall from the bridge.* Death followed resulting from an abundant loss of blood from a gunshot wound to the stomach. The shooting took place, as I concluded, at almost point-blank range, from the left to the right side through the stomach and the liver, shattering the right half of the liver. There was a huge loss of blood. A gunshot wound was also found in the back, in the area of the spinal column, which shattered the right kidney, and another wound at point-blank range in the forehead (probably as he lay dying or after he had already died). The chest organs were intact and we examined the upper part of the body: yet there were no signs of death from drowning. The lungs were not swollen and no water or foamy liquid was found in the respiratory tract. Rasputin was already dead when he was thrown into the water. I recall, by the way, that the autopsy took place under quite awkward conditions, with kerosene lamps which had to be moved around in order to see the entire cavity.

_____________________________________________
* Or perhaps the result of Yussupovís beating Rasputin with a rubber club - something Dr. Kosorotov was not aware of.


I have often had to conduct various difficult and unpleasant autopsies. I am a man of strong nerves who has seen just about everything there is to see. But seldom have I experienced such unpleasant moments as during that terrible night. The corpse made an unpleasant impression on me. The reedy expression on his face and the huge wound on the head were difficult to look at even for my experienced eyes. The haste with which this autopsy was performed also made a particular impression on me. A young, heavy-set woman arrived and then another young woman who instructed us that everything was to be concluded as quickly as possible. The authorities in charge of the investigation also requested this of me, but I found it essential to do my work methodically and conscientiously. In my opinion, Gregory Rasputin was killed by gunshot wounds from a revolver. One bullet was extracted; the other shots were made at close range and passed right on through the body, so that it was impossible to draw a precise conclusion as to how many people actually shot him.

Following the autopsy we had some tea in order to relax a bit from this difficult ordeal, and I clearly recall the perplexed glances on the faces of the representatives of the Investigatory Commission. Gregory Rasputin was of a strong constitution: he was some 50 years old and I recall how when talking with each other and sharing impressions during the autopsy we said that he could have easily lived for another 50. Rasputin was undoubtedly in an inebriated state when he was killed; the smell of cognac exuded from the body. His brain was normal in size and showed no signs whatsoever of any pathological aberrations.

I considered it my duty not to reveal all these facts before the trial. But now that the preliminary investigation into the murder of Rasputin-Novy has  been completed by Alexander F. Kerensky, the new Minister of Justice, I can speak about it.

Professor Dimitry Petrovich Kosorotov


Autopsy report on Grigory Rasputin as summarized by Prof. D. Kosorotov; see Kovyl-Bobyl, I., The Entire Truth About Rasputin, Obshchestvo Vozrozhdeniye, Profizdat, Moscow, 1990. (My translation, TRB)

Thank you for starting this thread.

Todd

Offline Louise

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2004, 10:25:42 PM »
Great post Todd. I wonder who the two women were that Kosorotov mentioned?

Another Romanov/Rasputin mystery and myth laid to rest.

Louise
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Offline Todd

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2004, 10:41:47 PM »
Louise,

Thank you for your comments. I have no direct evidence as to who the two women were. From Dr. Kosorotov's description of a young, heavy-set woman, I believe this might very well be Anna Vyroubova. What do you think?

Todd

Joanna Mayer

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2004, 06:16:04 PM »
I believe that it was Akulina Laptinskaya, Rasputin's houskeeper/lover while he was in the capital, who prepared him for burial...I think that I read that in "Rasputin The Saint Who Sinned " by Moynahan.  

but I might be wrong.
Joanna Mayer

Offline Todd

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2004, 07:39:24 PM »
Joanna,

That would make a lot of sense. You could certainly be right about that.

Todd

Offline Katharina

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2004, 05:42:15 AM »
Quote
Cyanide is 100% lethal, period. †


Agreed - but only if you take it. In my opinion Rasputin neither tried the petit fours nor did he drink the poisoned wine.

Offline Ella

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2004, 07:28:50 PM »
I think that Rasputin was definetly some thing evil. Yeah he was completely human, but he definetly had some strange power, whether it be good or evil. There were just too many weird coincidences to over look it. I honestly think he had something to do with the over throwing of the Romanovs. But who knows?

Wakana Narisako

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2004, 08:28:49 PM »
I honestly didn't read all the messages posted on this page, I maybe read 5-10.  I don't think Rasputin was that bad of a counselor.  Besides, there is no proof since there are no writings from that time stating that the murder or drowning of Rasputin ever occured.  I honestly don't think it matters that much if he was killed or drowned, but what matters is that he is dead and that Nicholas II didn't try to stop him before he started taking control.  If anyone disagrees, I will be more than happy to hear their opinion.

Offline Annie

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2004, 09:27:32 PM »
Quote
I honestly didn't read all the messages posted on this page, I maybe read 5-10. †I don't think Rasputin was that bad of a counselor. †Besides, there is no proof since there are no writings from that time stating that the murder or drowning of Rasputin ever occured. †I honestly don't think it matters that much if he was killed or drowned, but what matters is that he is dead and that Nicholas II didn't try to stop him before he started taking control. †If anyone disagrees, I will be more than happy to hear their opinion.


There ARE writings from the time, both Greg's book and the new Eduard Radzinsky book "The Rasputin File" have police reports and records of the time, but a lot of the reports, especially the timing of the events and the number of people involved, contradict the stories told by Felix and Purishkevitch. It is clear that some people, like the women, (Vera Korelli and possibly Dmitri's stepsister, Marianna, according to one report by Anna Vryobova) were being protected by the participants' denial of their presence. †The police saw the two women being ejected from the Moika palace. The departure and arrivals of cars, and the number of cars and people at the house that night, is in dispute. The police reports do not match the eyewitness accounts.

Radzinsky even suggests that it may have been Dmitri himself who delivered the mortal shots, and Purishkevitch covered up for him because he was a possible candidate for succession to the throne in the event of Nicholas's ouster. In his report, written on the train as he fled town soon after the murder, keeps saying 'thank goodness the young Grand Duke's hands are not soiled with the blood of this peasant." But was that true? Did Dmitri do more than just drive the getaway car when they dumped the body? He was a much better marksman than either Yussoupov or Purishkevitch. Radzinsky speculates modern furinsics (sp?) would prove that the shot that brought him down was from a different person than the others (the first by Felix and some shoddy shots by Purishkevitch as he fled. He suggests, why, if P. had missed at such close range, could he have hit the mark when Rasputin was FURTHER away? The theory was Dmitri appeared and shot Rasputin as he fled, where P. had missed and Felix was inside passed out. The bullets themselves wouldn't matter, as Felix used Dmitri's Browning revolver to shoot. Also, a night watchman at the bridge where the body was dumped saw the car, and something being thrown in. So there IS evidence of his murder.

There is SO much that can be explored with this! There are even some reports that Dr. Lazovert confessed on his deathbed that he had never really added poison to the food and drinks, fearing for his soul. If this is true, it takes a lot of fun out of the invincible Rasputin theory, which I like better ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

rskkiya

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2004, 09:39:33 PM »
Annie,

I discovered some very interesting information about Rasputins ability to heal Alexie...Its at another thread on Rasputin but it have to do with aspirin...I don't know if its something that you would be interested in...He was a facsinating fellow.

R.

Offline Annie

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2004, 09:43:08 PM »
Yes I would be interested, he is very fascinating!

rskkiya

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2004, 09:58:55 PM »
Its under Imperial History RE Rasputin...

R.

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2004, 08:01:30 AM »
I have just carried out a major investigation for the BBC/Discovery Channel regarding Rasputin's murder.  Lots of new evidence both documentary and forensic.  Watch BBC2 9.00pm 1 October 2004 - new Time Watch - history is changed.

I am writing a major academic article on the subject.  Does anyone know where there are photographs of Lazovert or Shutokin.

I was given access to the State Archives and Political Museum as part of the research

Richard Cullen
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumberís chain hath bound me,
Sad memíry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815