Author Topic: Rasputin's Murder  (Read 174254 times)

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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #420 on: August 20, 2006, 11:02:46 AM »
And here we are ninety years on and still debating the murder of a rather strange individual.  I wonder had he not been murdered whether we would have been still interested in him as a character.

Do you realise but other than teh stories of Purishkevich and Yusupov both of whom are serial liars and a rather a bizarre short meoir from De Lazovert which is in total variance with the other stories the last time anyone saw Rasputin was at about 1.00am on 17 December 1916 when he left his flat.  The next time anyone sees him is when is body is recovered from the Malaya Nevka?

No one esle sees him, or no one that has told the story.  The possible sound of shots in the environs of the Yusupov Palace on the Moika.  Purishkevich's admission to Vlasuk that he and Felix had killed Rasputin.  But no forensic scene, no evidence from inside the palace, a trail of blood in the snow, but was it the trail of the killed dog's blood?

Interetsing really that all we have to rely on are two absolute liars.

Richard

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Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
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Ere slumberís chain hath bound me,
Sad memíry brings the light
Of other days around me.

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #421 on: August 20, 2006, 12:52:40 PM »
Well, Richard, obviously someone saw him- his murderer.
 What I find interesting is that his murder should have been a wake-up call to Alexandra. Instead, it just pushed her trolley further off it's tracks. She became even more insular, her shell just hardened more.
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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #422 on: August 26, 2006, 02:04:52 AM »
I agree his murderer or murderers but all we have is what Y and P say with some rather fringe rantings from Colonel the Dr De Lazovert.

R
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumberís chain hath bound me,
Sad memíry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #423 on: August 26, 2006, 09:34:02 AM »
Robert,

I think your assessment of Alexandra is a bit harsh on this point.  ie: trolley off the tracks further. Please remember several points. Alexandra was deeply religious, and believed that R. was a genuine Staryets.
Reports had been sent to the Emperor on FOUR occassions with respect to R. and his "behaviour".  Nicholas had every single one checked out independently, even the last one from Stolypin and found they were all either outright fabrications or gross exaggerations of the truth.  As a result, Alexandra was convinced, and I think "reasonably so" that there was a simple hate campaign against R. due to his closeness to the IF.
Most importantly, regardless of "HOW" it happened, the genuine fact remained that R. had a genuine healing effect on the Tsarevich when the best doctors in Europe threw up their hands and told Alexandra to prepare for her son's imminent demise. 

It was not an act of "insanity" or some mental defect when Alexandra mourned the death of R., nor was it "burying her head in the sand".  Rather, his murder was the final and "conclusive" proof in her mind that the anti-R. cabal was genuine and had succeded.  Don't forget, the same social circle that aided, abetted and encouraged R.'s murder also were calling for Alexandra's removal to a convent at this same time.  I myself would feel "hard" and anti-social in similar circumstances. Such comments are nothing more than "monday morning quarterbacking" without standing for a moment in Alexandra's shoes.

Alexandra may indeed have had some emotional issues, and anxiety attacks, however, she was not "crazy" by any means. There is a genuine logical and reasonable explanation for her actions and responses.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 11:14:23 AM by Forum Admin »

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Rasputin's Murder
« Reply #424 on: August 26, 2006, 10:57:16 AM »
Thank you FA.

tsaria

Offline vladm

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Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #425 on: May 23, 2007, 04:04:38 AM »
I finally found some more or less reliable  information related to the guns and real info about shooters:
prince Youssopov shot 1st bullet from Browning pistol the 9 mm Model 1903

Purishkevich shot 4 total shots, 2 of them missed Rasputin, and 3rd shot hit his spine, and probably when Rasputin, turn he shot Rasputins forehead from 20 feet distance from pistol Savage model 1907/1915 .32 or .380 calibers


last two shots, am questioning because I think it could be prince Dimitry
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 10:34:16 PM by Alixz »
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Offline vladm

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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #426 on: May 23, 2007, 10:10:41 AM »
I forgot to say, one more important part, in Russia, back than - beginning of XX century, as Revolver was referred all of the handguns.
I was puzzled myself, why Browning, was referred as Revolver, same story about Savage, last Savage revolver was made, during US Civil War, and I seriously doubt noble person in Russia would take that old gun for Rasputin hunt. Same story about Kosorotov, when he extracted bullet, he referred as Revolver bullet, again, during this time word pistol would not be adapted yet, I think until 1930th period of time.
Supporting my theory you can find even on this site, where princess Paley mention several time "Browning revolver":
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/memoriesrussia/chapter_XXXII.html
For your information Browning never produce revolvers, only pistols as handguns.
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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #427 on: May 23, 2007, 10:46:56 AM »
I can't recall how to spell his name, but Purshkevick (?) after the execution ran to a guard who heard the shots and shouted. "I killed Rasputin!" If the British secret service was involved, wouldn't the guard have seen them??

Offline vladm

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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #428 on: May 23, 2007, 11:55:24 AM »
I can't recall how to spell his name, but Purshkevick (?) after the execution ran to a guard who heard the shots and shouted. "I killed Rasputin!" If the British secret service was involved, wouldn't the guard have seen them??

I am not questioning involvement of British MI, it was very unlikely they participated in the event, I am questioning if prince Dimitry was part of the murder (final shooting), and now I have detail information about Youssopov's and Purishkevich guns  (probability for correct guns more than 75%).
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Bob_the_builder

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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #429 on: May 23, 2007, 03:30:43 PM »
Sorry, I posted that in the wrong thread. I meant to post that in the "Who's responsible for Rasputin's death?" thread.

Offline vladm

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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #430 on: May 24, 2007, 05:42:26 PM »
One more thoughts about guns and bullets. I know one person, who makes bullet's for guns herself (she like to shoot a lot), and because this is expensive "sport", she could go over 1000 rounds per weekend, making bullets she saves thousand dollars literally. Now, Savage, had Imperial metrics type of bullets, and I doubt it was freely available at the store, rather "special order". Purishkevich was not poor, but he could also make his bullets himself, because it was difficult to get, that could explain his poor performance, and stuck bullet in the liver of the Rasputin (20 feet away shot).
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #431 on: May 24, 2007, 06:55:11 PM »
... Purishkevich was not poor, but he could also make his bullets himself, because it was difficult to get, that could explain his poor performance, and stuck bullet in the liver of the Rasputin (20 feet away shot).

Sorry Vlad but I must disagree here. Since Puriskevich was offiicially issued with a weapon, it would have come with bullets!

Perhaps his "poor performance" only indicates that Puriskevich's marksmanship in the heat of the moment was less than ideal?

Margarita
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Offline vladm

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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #432 on: May 24, 2007, 07:15:01 PM »
... Purishkevich was not poor, but he could also make his bullets himself, because it was difficult to get, that could explain his poor performance, and stuck bullet in the liver of the Rasputin (20 feet away shot).

Sorry Vlad but I must disagree here. Since Puriskevich was officially issued with a weapon, it would have come with bullets!

  ;)

Margarita, we are talking about nobility of Russia, I doubt, they had a single gun, also according to this article: http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/pistols.htm, a lot of Russian officers did not have standard guns, and Purishkevich had Savage, or he may took Savage for the murder, because it was relatively small compared to others. Also, bullets for guns like that are not standard, so I believe, he had to get it from store by himself, or make it himself.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 10:36:13 PM by Alixz »
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Rasputin's death could be from 2? shooters
« Reply #433 on: May 24, 2007, 07:27:13 PM »
... Purishkevich was not poor, but he could also make his bullets himself, because it was difficult to get, that could explain his poor performance, and stuck bullet in the liver of the Rasputin (20 feet away shot).

Sorry Vlad but I must disagree here. Since Puriskevich was offiicially issued with a weapon, it would have come with bullets!

  ;)

Margarita, we are talking about reach nobility of Russia, I doubt, they had a single gun, also according to this article: http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/pistols.htm, a lot of Russian officers did not had standard guns, and Purishkevich had Savage, or he may took Savage for the murder, because it was relatively small compare to others. Also, bullets for guns like that are not standard, so I believe, he had to get it from store by himself, or make it himself.

I believe the article which you have kindly provided was more applicable to officers who were in the battle field. Puriskevich's circumstances were rather different.

BTW the Minister of Internal Afffairs, Khvostov had a Browning.

Margarita
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Offline Katharine

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Real cause of death?
« Reply #434 on: June 13, 2007, 02:57:46 AM »
So I'd always heard about the "accepted" Yusupov version of events - that he was poisoned and shot then dumped in the Neva and that despite all that the autopsy later revealed the actual cause of death was drowning.

But I just saw the Time Watch documentary yesterday whose conclusion is that whilst all that did occur, the actual cause of death was a gunshot to the centre of Rasputin's forehead which neither Yusupov nor Purishkevich mentioned or "took credit" for, caused by a British secret agent. And yet this documentary never mentioned the drowning ...

Was the drowning made up? Or did this documentary conveniantly ignore that in order to make their conclusion seem more plausible?