Author Topic: Rasputin's Murder  (Read 197700 times)

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Re: Real cause of death?
« Reply #435 on: June 13, 2007, 11:10:17 AM »
The original autopsy has been put up several times here in the forum, go search for it. The original autopsy showed NO evidence of drowning, no evidence of poison. The original autopsy revealed the gunshots  were the cause of death. The rest is myth.

"There were three gun shot wounds.  The first bullet had penetrated in the left part of the chest and went through the stomach and liver; the second entered in the left part of the back and went through the kidneys; the third hit Rasputin in the face and penetrated into the skull.  The first two bullets hit the staryets standing, the third hit him when he was laid out on the ground.  The brain matter gave off an odor of alcohol.  In the stomach, the doctor found 20 tablespoons of a brownish liquid seeming to be alcohol.  The autopsy did not reveal the presence of poison." Spiridovitch "Raspoutine" pg.401-402.

and Courtesy of Richard Cullen, the original report itself:

'I, professor Kossorotov, declare that I have been to Fexamen and to the autopsy of Rasputin’s dead body, on 20th December 1916 at 10 o’clock in the evening, in the mortuary room of the Tchesma Hospice.  The body was recognised by his two daughters, his niece, his secretary and various witnesses.

The body is that of a man of about 50 years old, of medium size, dressed in blue embroidered hospital robe, which covers a white shirt.  His legs, in tall animal skin boots, are tied with a rope, and the same rope ties his wrists.  His dishevelled hair is light brown, as are his long moustache and beard, and it’s soaked with blood.  His mouth is half-open, his teeth clenched.  His face below his forehead is covered in blood.  His shirt too is also marked with blood.

There are three bullet wounds.

1)      the first has penetrated the left side of the chest and has gone through the stomach and the liver

2)      the second has entered into the right side of the back and gone through the kidney


3)      the third has hit the victim on the forehead and penetrated into his brain

Bullet analysis

The first two bullets hit the victim standing
The third bullet hit the victim while he was lying on the ground
The bullets came from different calibre revolvers

Examination of the Head

The cerebral matter gave off a strong smell of alcohol

Examination of the stomach

The stomach contains about twenty soup spoons of liquid smelling of alcohol.  The examination reveals no trace of poison

Wounds

His left side has a weeping wound, due to some sort of slicing object or a sword.
His right eye has come out of its cavity and falls down onto his face.  At the corner of the right eye the membrane is torn.
His right ear in hanging down and torn
His neck has a wound from some sort of rope tie
The victim’s face and body carry traces of blows given by a supple but hard object
His genitals have been crushed by the action of a similar object

Causes of death
•      Haemorrhage caused by a wound to the liver and the wound to the right kidney must have started the rapid decline of his strength.
•       In this case, he would have died in ten or twenty minutes. 
•      At the moment of death the deceased was in a state of drunkenness.  The first bullet passed through the stomach and the liver.  This mortal blow had been shot from a distance of 20 centimetres. 
•      The wound on the right side, made at nearly exactly the same time as the first, was also mortal; it passed through the right kidney. 
•      The victim, at the time of the murder, was standing.  When he was shot in the forehead, his body was already on the ground.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 11:31:41 AM by Forum Admin »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Real cause of death?
« Reply #436 on: June 13, 2007, 05:52:56 PM »
Was the drowning made up?

Yes.

Margarita


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Offline Nomine

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The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #437 on: December 13, 2007, 03:46:12 PM »
I am working on a certain paper on Rasputin and I think a lot about what happened the night he was killed. I came accross several questions I can't answer:

1) In this thread http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,9633.0.html an autopsy report is written. Where did it turn up, when so many authors considered to have been destroyed by bolshevicks? Why did't the authors simply take it as the most reliable evidence?

I personally believe it more then the theory he survived the shots, but to work with it, I need a precise description of the source. Where is the report available?
2) If it is true, how did it happen that the ropes around wrists of Grigorij were loosened?

Thank you for every opinion. Please, mention only reasonable ideas with reliable sources.
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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #438 on: December 13, 2007, 04:22:59 PM »
I have the autopsy report reproduced in "Les Dernieres Annees de la Cour a Tzarskoe Selo" by Gen. Spiridovitch.  The translation from French to English is mine.   I believe it is available elsewhere also,  I believe Belochka has a copy in Russian.

To my knowledge there are NO reliable sources indicating Rasputin was alive after the gunshots.  Further, modern forensic analysis of the gunshot wounds, as described in the autopsy and visible in the autopsy photos, indicates these shots, most particularly the execution style shot to the skull were fatal immediately.

The most likely theory for the ropes on the hands being "loose" was by the body being dragged by the hands and immersion in near freezing water.


Hope this helps.


Offline Belochka

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #439 on: December 14, 2007, 05:13:33 AM »
I have the autopsy report reproduced in "Les Dernieres Annees de la Cour a Tzarskoe Selo" by Gen. Spiridovitch.  The translation from French to English is mine.   I believe it is available elsewhere also,  I believe Belochka has a copy in Russian.

... The most likely theory for the ropes on the hands being "loose" was by the body being dragged by the hands and immersion in near freezing water.


I finally purchased the French edition!

Yes indeed I do have most of General Spiridovich's books in Russian.



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Offline Nomine

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #440 on: December 14, 2007, 02:21:11 PM »
Thanks so much for all the information!   ;)

Well, this task was set to me during the seminar of history at my school. (Or, honestly, I chose this topic myself 'cause I've been interested in Grigorij since I was twelve.) It has been a work for 2 years and I am supposed to finish it these days. I hoped to get valuable info during my stay in Petersburg, Tobolsk, Tyumen and Pokrovskoe, where I spent a month of this summer holidays...and I actually did (especially visiting the places where that all took place), but some questions still remain and I would like to write a report as unbiased as possible.
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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #441 on: December 15, 2007, 11:00:15 AM »
I believe the complete autopsy is actually in Gen. Spiridovitch's bio "Rasputine", and only bits are in "Les Dernieres Annees".  My bad. Sorry.

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #442 on: January 06, 2008, 04:07:20 AM »
I am afraid there are NO fonts of knowledge when it comes to Rasputin's death.  There never can be unless further evidence becomes available and in particular the forensic examination of Felix's basement dining room - but that is not going to happen.  therefore it necessary to deal in the FACTS as we know them.

Some of those FACTS throw the stories of Purishkevich and Felix into complete doubt, in fact they were serial liars.  The forensic facts as we know them show there stories to be the lies they are.

I have been privileged to have access to some material others have not seen and have had the time to research and consider forensically (of the court) the evidence in respect of Rasputin's death.

Rob now has my 161 page paper on the subject which will be published on the web-site in due course.

Richard
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 10:43:24 PM by Alixz »
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Of other days around me.

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Offline Belochka

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #443 on: January 06, 2008, 06:01:44 PM »
... Some of those FACTS throw the stories of Purishkevich and Felix into complete doubt, in fcat they were serial liars.  The forensic facts as we know them show there stories to be the lies they are.

Rob now has my 161 page paper on the subject which will be published on the web-site in due course.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I shall look forward to your discussion regarding Rasputin's murder. Do you have any idea when Rob will be able to upload your paper?

Yusupov and Purishkevich may have been serial liars, but IMHO they also managed to squeeze in a few truths.

Best regards,

Margarita



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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #444 on: January 07, 2008, 10:05:51 AM »
It will be up in a day or two.  We celebrated Russian Christmas Eve yesterday and had a houseful of people all day, so I lost the weekend to cleaning and cooking and general revelry. 

Offline Belochka

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #445 on: January 07, 2008, 03:50:32 PM »
It will be up in a day or two.  We celebrated Russian Christmas Eve yesterday and had a houseful of people all day, so I lost the weekend to cleaning and cooking and general revelry. 

Merry Orthodox Christmas to you FA!

Thanks for the good news, and enjoy the continuing celebrations today.

Best Wishes,

Margarita


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Offline Arleen

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #446 on: January 14, 2008, 03:46:43 PM »
Rob, will you tell us when Richard Cullens report is put up or will we just have to look for it?  Or is it up now?

I can hardly wait to read it, and thanks to Richard for sharing with us!

Arleen

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #447 on: January 14, 2008, 03:56:49 PM »
Hi Arleen

I apologize for the delay.  I thought it was going to be an easy task to just copy text over. However, Richard's exhausitive Paper has some 40 plus photos and figures/maps.  Every image has to be downloaded, re-sized, and uploaded to our server.  I've gotten about half done, but it's time consuming.  Add that to the routine 4 hours a day I have to spend on the Forum, and trying to finish my translation of the 1912 Kremlin Guide, oh, and did I mention my "real world" job, the dogs, cats, laundry, etc etc....

I'll have it up as soon as I possibly can!
Rob

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Re: The death - revealing the truth
« Reply #448 on: January 14, 2008, 04:05:00 PM »
You really are a busy guy Rob!! 

I understand and now you have really whet my appetite!  It sounds wonderful.....but I will be nice and patient, promise.....

Arleen

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Offline Annetta

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One more version of the murder
« Reply #449 on: March 17, 2009, 02:18:56 PM »
Hi
does anybody has info about it?
it's widely discussed one wound found on the side of Rasputin's body. it was made by a sabre or other cold steel. who did it???
sacral murder by masons? but scholars say that masons didn't accomplish bloody offerings in the beginning of 20 cent.

some days ago i read an article. sounds fantastically. that wound was inflicted by Romanov's, Irina's brothers. the author quoted her letters where she retelled that story. he states that the murder took place not in the dinner room in Felix's apartament, but in Secretary room on his grandfather's living quater, on the staircase leading to princess's bedroom. the author suggestes that it was some kind of drinked company. after the murder killers were to compose some fairy tale to look better than it happened to them.
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