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Topic: What people could be called "the White Russians"?  (Read 22117 times)
« on: June 24, 2009, 11:35:59 PM »
amely Offline
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I have somehow had the wrong idea that in America there has not been many real Communists. However, later I have understood that some Communists moved to America, too. Why did they move to America and when? Where did they come from? I have even some idea that in some book they mentioned that there were people in America from the Sovjet Union area that preached even the communist ideas in America.

And it is not so long ago when I have heard somebody mention "the White Russians" that must be some kind of an opposite to those who were Communists. And to be a Russian is surely not identical to be a Communist. So, what people do they mean with "the White Russians"?

The word "Emigrant" was what I know originally used only of those who fled the Russian Revolution in the times around the 1920 and who fled for their lives. Those people have never lived in the Sovjet Union.

According to some source (that I don't remember) the Huguenots are mentioned to have been the first refugee group in Europe (Huh). But later there have been people who came from the Sovjet Union area and even those call themselves or are they called by others to be Emigrants.

Is there somebody who know what groups of people left the Sovjet Union area during the times after the Revolution? I really mean people that had been living even in the Sovjet Union? How could they manage to get out of the Sovjet Union? I have understood that in fact it was almost impossible at least if you were some person of at least some "importance". And how could poor people and those who were of no importance manage and make their way to America or elsewhere during the times of the Sovjet Union? There surely is something hard to understand in all this talk of having some emigrant background.

These questions surely has to do with one's Russian Roots.
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Reply #1
« on: June 25, 2009, 12:33:13 AM »
amely Offline
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I started to wonder somewhat more!

What people moved into the houses of the Emigrants that fled for their lives the Russian Revolution? Who started to use their clothes etc?
Became those people rich or not? At least they could have put on clothes of the real noble people and take photos! Could they be persons that later somehow managed to leave the area? It is know that people who feared for their lives for example changed their identities with their servants. And in other cases some "nobodies" started to use the names of some "somebodies". So there surely might be a real mess about everything that nobody can sort out! What about only one family picture, where people look really miserable and have very modest but tidy clothing, and carry just one important thing...the clothing doesn't even match the standards of the clothing of the servants of the noble people...This I came to think when I saw your pictures of the noble people in rather fine and beautiful clothing...

To make your living all over the Europe was very difficult for all Emigrants (from the 1920-ties). England didn't want to take in any of their royal relatives as they feared that the revolution might start even there. So what did they do to survive? I know a noble lady that had some things hidden in the cushions of their children and she sold everything in order to manage to get some money for the food. Maybe you could manage to have a loose plait in your hair to help to identify your personality. Or maybe you had some tiny badge of somebody in your family that you might even have put into your female genitials...so the real noble families might not have almost nothing to show their real identity with...and they surely didn't talk anything during the Sovjet Union times...and their children shouldn't know their identity because it might have been very dangerous if the children started to talk...or somebody might have put them into some mental hospital, if they claimed to be some decendats of some people with "interesting" roots in Russian and elsewhere...

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Reply #2
« on: November 02, 2009, 04:57:23 PM »
tutsi
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Hmm a most interesting question. I guess one might surmise that "White Russians" were in existence to serve and protect the Royal Family.
Having said that, one might even ponder that even in the "Red Army" there were also those who avowed the same. And then the same goes in the other direction.....Both sides thought they were doing what they believed in. But the real question is: To whom is attributed the beginning of the division of people? And more importantly, why?.

Because, in my view...those who create the original division had a purpose and an intent. And by creating this they then created the seeds of dissent, which suited its purpose.

And now, in these times....more important is to realise that by allowing and listening to those who create dissent, that it is for no good purpose whatsoever....

Much better to bring humanity together, by being an example. Every single person can choose, we do have a choice. Just listen to your heart.

Hmm perhaps I have derailed this thread! Just a tad.




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Reply #3
« on: November 03, 2009, 10:59:33 PM »
totheboss Offline
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As always a very interesting question.
Technically anyone from Belarus could claim to be a White Russian, as Belarus “Belaya Rus” (Белая Русь) translates into "White Russia" although this is incorrect, the problem with this translation is that the name "White Russia" seems to suggest that this territory is related to the present-day Russian Federation, whereas it has nothing to do with the Russian  Federation, but is related to the ancient lands of Ruthenia
Ruthenia is the Latinized version of Kievan Rus’, a 9th to 12th-century state that existed in the territories of modern-day Belarus, Ukraine, and part of western Russia and eastern Poland.
But I think that what you are asking about is the Russian émigrés of 1917 – 1920 as they were referred to as “white émigrés” as many white émigrés were participants in the White movement or supported it, although the term is often broadly applied to anyone who may have left the country due to the change in regimes. Most white émigrés left Russia from 1917 to 1920 (estimates vary between 900,000 and 2 million), although some managed to leave during the twenties and thirties.
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Alex
Reply #4
« on: November 11, 2009, 05:50:58 PM »
tutsi
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As always a very interesting question.
Technically anyone from Belarus could claim to be a White Russian, as Belarus “Belaya Rus” (Белая Русь) translates into "White Russia" although this is incorrect, the problem with this translation is that the name "White Russia" seems to suggest that this territory is related to the present-day Russian Federation, whereas it has nothing to do with the Russian  Federation, but is related to the ancient lands of Ruthenia
Ruthenia is the Latinized version of Kievan Rus’, a 9th to 12th-century state that existed in the territories of modern-day Belarus, Ukraine, and part of western Russia and eastern Poland.
But I think that what you are asking about is the Russian émigrés of 1917 – 1920 as they were referred to as “white émigrés” as many white émigrés were participants in the White movement or supported it, although the term is often broadly applied to anyone who may have left the country due to the change in regimes. Most white émigrés left Russia from 1917 to 1920 (estimates vary between 900,000 and 2 million), although some managed to leave during the twenties and thirties.


Was wondering if the Vedic Russians would be considered "White Russians"Huh
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Reply #5
« on: May 01, 2010, 07:11:00 PM »
archvstlisa Offline
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As stated previously above:
I believe that "White" Russians were part of the Imperial Russian diaspora left stateless following the October Revolution of 1917-1918. That means (to me) those who chose to leave, were forced to leave, or who were already out of the country (Harbiners and their families, for example) and could not return would be considered all "White" (as opposed to Red communists) not necessarily just the "aristocracy" as I believed when I was younger but EVERYONE outside.

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Reply #6
« on: January 08, 2011, 04:18:03 PM »
David Pritchard Offline
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If arrested by the Bolsheviks, a White could be anyone who was not an active supporter of the Bolsheviks. The term White or Counter-revolutionary was or could be extended to all those in Russia who did not follow and recite Marxist-Leninist doctrines and thus be executed or incarcerated.

Outside of Russia, the term White was usually applied to the nobility and those who actively fought against the Bolshevik Revolutionaries.
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Reply #7
« on: January 09, 2011, 04:01:12 AM »
Belochka Offline
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If arrested by the Bolsheviks, a White could be anyone who was not an active supporter of the Bolsheviks. The term White or Counter-revolutionary was or could be extended to all those in Russia who did not follow and recite Marxist-Leninist doctrines and thus be executed or incarcerated.

Outside of Russia, the term White was usually applied to the nobility and those who actively fought against the Bolshevik Revolutionaries.

Outside of Russia, this term applied broadly to all Russian émigrés who opposed the Bolshevik regime.

In fact this term extended across all classes of the 'old' Russian society, who managed to escape their homeland.

Margarita
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« on: January 09, 2011, 10:06:18 AM »
bonbon823 Offline
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My grandfather emigrated from Minsk in about 1916 or 17, I'm assuming to escape the chaos although I don't know the real reason as I never personally knew him.  He came over and settled in Chicago with a group of his friends and they all lived together until he married.  He fought during the war for America, although I don't know where (I have a copy of his enrollment card).  My mom told of how he would sit with his friends, drinking vodka, talking about the old country.  So I don't know if he came here out of what he thought was necessity or what.  One of his friends even went back to Russia in the 60's to live.  We all thought that was bizarre...
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Reply #9
« on: December 10, 2011, 04:53:37 PM »
AGRBear Offline
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When Karl Baedeker, a travel author, wrote in 1912 the following description of what a "White Russian" was:

>>The White Russians occupy what were probably the original homes of the Slaves in white Russia (province of Minsk, Mohilev, Vilna, Vitebsk, and Grodno).  They numbered about 6,000,000, and probably derive their name from the light colour of their clothing.  They are the poorest and the least advanced of the three stocks.  Their villages are small, and solitary farms are frequent.  A disease of the hair known as Plica Polonica is very common among them."<<

These are his words not mine.
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