Author Topic: In Case of a Restoration, ...  (Read 19520 times)

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Offline belianis

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In Case of a Restoration, ...
« on: July 04, 2009, 03:44:37 PM »
... which of the Romanov lines would have the stronger claim to the throne?

Offline Zecharia

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 07:34:37 PM »
... which of the Romanov lines would have the stronger claim to the throne?
What about Nicholas II's  illegitimate daughter Celina and her family?  ;)

Rumours also circulated that year that Vova might not be the only child of Nicholas and Mathilde. She had spent a solitary summer the previous year at her dacha while the Tsar also holidayed alone at a nearby palace. Mathilde then disappeared to a friend’s estate in the Spring of 1911 to be joined by her brother, Joseph and his wife Celina. The couple reappeared in St Petersburg in November with a baby girl also named Celina. The suspicion that the daughter was of Imperial stock was compounded by Mathilde’s excessive fondness of her new “niece” whom she treated exactly the same as Vova, and her later talent as a dancer.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 07:36:57 PM by Zecharia »

Offline James_Davidov

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 08:39:46 AM »
Zecharia,

No historical evidence exists to suggest that NII and Mathilde had an illegitimate child.

One would also suspect that with the numerous parties involved in such a cover up, at least one would have emerged following the revolution; to gain some fame or fortune, god knows every other avenue was exhausted by frauds and desperados.

It probably also doesn’t need to be noted that the mythical daughter, as a female and an illegitimate child, would never have been accepted as a successor (sadly even today)
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Offline Zecharia

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 08:01:22 PM »
Zecharia,

No historical evidence exists to suggest that NII and Mathilde had an illegitimate child.

One would also suspect that with the numerous parties involved in such a cover up, at least one would have emerged following the revolution; to gain some fame or fortune, god knows every other avenue was exhausted by frauds and desperados.

It probably also doesn’t need to be noted that the mythical daughter, as a female and an illegitimate child, would never have been accepted as a successor (sadly even today)
I found this short article on this web page:
http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_06/dec06/jt_mathilde_kschessinska_imperial_dancer.htm


Do not accept female in these days is shovinismus  ;) :(

Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 04:25:07 PM »
Zecharia,

No historical evidence exists to suggest that NII and Mathilde had an illegitimate child.

One would also suspect that with the numerous parties involved in such a cover up, at least one would have emerged following the revolution; to gain some fame or fortune, god knows every other avenue was exhausted by frauds and desperados.

It probably also doesn’t need to be noted that the mythical daughter, as a female and an illegitimate child, would never have been accepted as a successor (sadly even today)
I found this short article on this web page:
http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_06/dec06/jt_mathilde_kschessinska_imperial_dancer.htm


The article is very dishonest. It shows a picture of Coryne Hall's bio of Kschessinska as if it were a review of the book, and the reproduces a number of silly stories which the bio actually refutes. If you are interested in the story of Celina you would be better served by buying Coryne's book. There is no mystery in Celina's ability to dance; her father was Josef Kschessinski, himself a dancer, and the chronology of her birth makes it not even remotely possible that Nicholas was the father. He was nowhere near Kschessinka when the kid would have been conceived. Add to which, he once wrote to his wife assuring her of his eternal fidelity, so for this story to be true he must have been rather a convincing liar, in addition to having this extraordinary ability to be in several places at once...:-)

I don't know why people insist on habouring these romantic notions about Kschessinska being some sort of secret lost undying love, just because she was a commoner.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 04:30:14 PM by Janet Ashton »
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 03:04:22 PM »
Plus, illegitimate issue, whether a commoner is involved or not, is not generally eligible for succession. (That's what the term is about - a legitimate heir is someone who can inherit!).

It is fairly obvious from observation that Nicholas was a man who fell in love easily, and he was certainly "in love" with Kschensskya during the time they were involved. After his engagement, he apparently passed her on to his cousin Serge Michaelovich, although probably not so crudely as that. He certainly remained fond of her over the years, but he was in love and as far as we can tell, totally faithful to his wife, Alexandra.

So, agreed, this type of speculation is ridiculous, does not gibe with the known facts and is disrespectful to all of their memories - even that of Little K's!

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 03:23:42 PM »
So, agreed, this type of speculation is ridiculous, does not gibe with the known facts and is disrespectful to all of their memories - even that of Little K's!

I'm totally agree with you.

I wonder why people are still so inclined to inventing scandals and gossip about the Romanovs 92 years after their death.

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2009, 10:04:50 AM »
Ops!...I have to do a correction to my previous post: today is the 91th anniversary of the death of the Romanovs.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2009, 10:42:59 AM »
Hi Lisa,

I see you have used "in love" in post #5.  I would just like to qualify that by substituting "enthralled"....
Many a young man has been 'captivated' by a glamourous celebrity and thought they were in love;  and certainly N & M went beyond just holding hands!!;  but I think he didn't really know what mature feelings were at that time.

Needless to say, she did hold a spell over him for years - but I still think it was enthrallment.....

Larry

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2009, 12:36:08 AM »
Hi Lisa,

I see you have used "in love" in post #5.  I would just like to qualify that by substituting "enthralled"....
Many a young man has been 'captivated' by a glamourous celebrity and thought they were in love;  and certainly N & M went beyond just holding hands!!;  but I think he didn't really know what mature feelings were at that time.

Needless to say, she did hold a spell over him for years - but I still think it was enthrallment.....

Larry

Hi Larry:

You could be right. I certainly think that Nicholas himself saw it as being "in love" but the quotes were mine and because I also think that based upon what he said, he felt responsible for his lover and so romanticized their association.

Good to hear from you!

Lisa

Offline Michael HR

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2009, 06:32:25 AM »
I feel that if Nicholas had been graced with a daughter we would by now have known about it. I am sure it would have come out either before 1917 or in someway afterwords. I am sure he would have provided financially in some way and there woudl have been records of this somewhere that would also have surfaced by now. Sadly I do not think this story os true for so many reasons. Anyway, she would not be able to claim the throne under Pauline laws, just look at the problems that GD Maria has and she was born, more or less, within the house laws and she is disputed no end. 
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Offline Lucien

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 12:40:57 AM »
To come back to the initial head of the threat,a restauration,nah.don't think so,unless one believes B movies are real life stories,or Maria V is a Grand Duchess,which she isn't.

Prince Dmitry Romanov released an official announcement yesterday on behalve of his elder brother,Prince Nikolai Romanov:

"During my last visit to St.Petersburg representatives of various news agencies asked me to comment on the announcement
made by my relative Maria Vladimirovna."

Firstly:

I want to note once again,as has been noted many times before,that referring to Maria Vladimirovna as "Grand Duchess" is wrong and inaccurate.
The last Grand Duchess of the Imperial Family no doubt was the Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna,sister to HM Tsar Nicholas II.
Today,all living members of the Family bear the title Duke or Duchess.

Secondly:

By right and by acknowledgement of all other members of the Imperial Family,my elder brother,Prince Nikolai Romanov,is the Head of the Family.
As has been stated for numerous times,calling Maria Vladimirovna "Head of the Imperial Family" is wrong and misleading.

Thirdly:

"Maria Vladimirovna's intention to settle down in Russia is a wish that has already been fulfilled by many former immigrant families
 ( and younger Members of the House of Romanov).It is,however,very important to understand that Maria Vladimirovna is acting
as a private citizen and her return does NOT symbolize the return of the House of Romanov.Any of Maria Vladimirovna's representatives,
lawyers,advisors or other associates do NOT act on behalve of the Romanov Imperial Family.They act on behalve of the private person
Maria Vladimirovna and nothing more.  

As a conclusion,I would like to remind to a meeting of all male-line descendants of the Imperial Family in Paris in 1992.
During the meeting we agreed that,considering all historical aspects,no member of the House of Romanov will ever put
forward any claims,or demands,nor will expect any privileges.No exceptions will ever be made.
On the contrary,we decided to be usefull to our Motherland to the best of our abilities."

On behalve of HIH Prince Nikolai Romanov:
Prince Dmitry Romanov,Copenhagen july 28th 2009.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 01:04:42 AM by Lucien »
Je Maintiendrai

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 04:58:20 AM »
Thanks for the information Lucien.
May I ask you to post the two links for the announments please.

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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2009, 05:46:41 AM »
Lucien,
This announcement seems to lack genuiness, too many errors, ie all living Romanovs are Dukes, and he styles his brother as HIH, which is definately wrong.
There are others, but lets confirm it first,
cheers,
 
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
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Offline perfecciona

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Re: In Case of a Restoration, ...
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2009, 10:13:52 AM »
Thanks for the information Lucien.
May I ask you to post the two links for the announments please.



I read the entire article here, hope the link works:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/10140-we-may-return-to-russia-but-we-want-no-privileges-announces-prince-dimitri-romanov/