Re: The Empress Alexandra Fights Back #4

In September 1911, Stolypin's career was cut short when Dmitry Bogrov assassinated him in Kiev. Once a secret police informant, Bogrov's background spawned persistent rumors of right-wing complicity in the murder of Russia's last great reformer, but by all authoritative accounts the assassin acted alone. Some scholars argue that Stolypin's political influence, and especially his personal relationship with Nicholas II, was waning well before his death, in large measure as a result of the western zemstvo crisis of March 1911. Yet, Abraham Ascher, Stolypin's most authoritative biographer, credits the claims of Alexander Zenkovsky that Stoylpin was contemplating further substantive reforms of the empire's administrative and territorial structures in the last months of his life. Stolypin's historical reputation continues to be the subject of scholarly debate, the character and consequences of his policies intertwined with larger debates about the stability and longevity of the tsarist regime.

http://www.answers.com/topic/peter-arkadievich-stolypin


 The royal family was discredited by a number of scandals.   It was widely suspected that Nicholas himself was a party to the murder of Stolypin, who was shot by a member of the secret police in the tsar's presence during a gala performance at the Kiev Opera; nothing was ever proved, but Nicholas and his right-wing supporters were probably not sorry to see the back of Stolypin, who was becoming too liberal for their comfort.

http://www.johndclare.net/Russ3_Lowe.htm

I am always so frustrated that what I can find on Stolypin's murder always concentrates on what happened in the theater and what the tsar and the grand duchesses thought and did.  I want to know who was behind the murder.  Was it Rasputin as Moynahan suggests?  Was it the Black Hundred?  Or as in all assassinations was it a "lone gunman" as touted by many?

(Off Topic - I have always liked the "Lone Gunmen" theory from the X-Files)

It just doesn't seem possible that one person could plan and carry out any assassination. Even the murder of Rasputin took a great many people and a lot of planning.

Griffh - I searched in your postings and I did find Stolypin mentioned.  Do you have more information about the planning of the assassination of Stolypin, not just the gossipy details of the tsar and the "opera glasses"?

[Rumours of Moral Corruption]

Alixz I kind of lean toward the "lone gunman."  I do have more information from Asher's book on the assassination of Stolypin, as he devotes pages of research on Dmitrii Bogrov which I shall share.   However Asher does not appear to be able to clear up the mystery. 

I personally don't think that Rasputin had anything to do with Stolypin's murder, but that is just my opinion.  Rasputin certainly felt hurt by Stolypin's change of attitude toward him and it is true that Rasputin was involved with Iliodor in a series of attempts to discredit Stolypin.  But these attacks ended with the Tsar and the Empress reprimanding Iliodor personally, making the monk promise not to attack the Ministers or the government anymore.  Rasputin got the message and realized that attacking Stolypin would distance him from the Imperial couple.  According to Iliodor, Rasputin advised the monk to stop attacking Stolypin as now [1910-1911] the ministers and government must be protected.  I will share this research from Iliodor's book, which as we know is very suspect, but at the same time this information appears accurate as it was during a time when both Iliodor and Rasputin were in trouble and needed each other’s help staying in the Imperial favor.  For instance when the Empress was slow in responding to Rasputin’s request for a certain amount of money to be given to Iliodor for some building project, the Strannik had some kind of throat problem that was appeared to be the result of his anxiety.     

I will also share Stolypin's daughter's memories of how deeply Nicky felt anguish over Stolypin's death which contrasts sharply with the tone of his diary entries about the death. 

It is only natural the Empress felt relieved that the man who had issued an arrest warrant for Rasputin had departed.  However it appears that Nicky did not completely share his wife’s calm over the Prime Minister’s demise. 

I have included a great deal of this information in the Chronology on Rumours of Moral Corruption that I am currently working on.  I am so grateful for your observations Alixz.  I will also share Moynahan's perspective on Rasputin in the Fall of 1915 and the dismissals that Rasputin and the Empress were supposed to have been responsible for, but in actuality had nothing to do with.  I have shared this information before but I believe that it is helpful to review and I think again we shall understand why chronologies are so important in separating fact from fiction.     

 

[Pray God he will make a full recovery.]

It is only natural the Empress felt relieved that the man who had issued an arrest warrant for Rasputin had departed.

Griff, I am doubtful whether 'relief' is the most appropriate word to describe the Empress' feelings after Stolypin's death. In a letter to her sister-in-law written on the day after the attack, when Stolypin was still alive, she spoke of a "terrible assassination attempt" and "Pray God he will make a full recovery." [original in German]

[Pray God he will make a full recovery.]

It is only natural the Empress felt relieved that the man who had issued an arrest warrant for Rasputin had departed.

Griff, I am doubtful whether 'relief' is the most appropriate word to describe the Empress' feelings after Stolypin's death. In a letter to her sister-in-law written on the day after the attack, when Stolypin was still alive, she spoke of a "terrible assassination attempt" and "Pray God he will make a full recovery." [original in German]

Oh Helen what a wonderful quote.  Thank you so very much!!!  Certainly my choice of words could not be more damaging to the Empress.  I have got to be so much more careful with my choice of words!!!  I am so grateful to you for the correction and so very grateful for that invaluable quote from the Empress as it truly reveals her character.   

I can't thank you enough for your research.

I will be able to post the information from Asher on Stolypin's assassination and have compared it with the author's of Fontanka 16 and it appears, with few exceptions, these historians have drawn just about the same conclusions on the tragedy and do not see it as the result of a conspiracy but of incompetence.  I will share the information and we can judge for ourselves.

I just was flooded once again with gratitude Helen for sharing such a vital quote that I do not believe has ever appeared in print and that certainly has never appeared in any publication I have ever read dealing with the Empress' reaction to Stolypin's assassination.  It so vindicates the Empress, in her words, from the standard view that she was unmoved at best, or even "releived" as I so mistakenly stated. 

A million thanks Helen as you research has bolstered my convictions about the Empress' tender, compassionate nature. 

   

...  such a vital quote that I do not believe has ever appeared in print and that certainly has never appeared in any publication I have ever read dealing with the Empress' reaction to Stolypin's assassination. It so vindicates the Empress, in her words, from the standard view that she was unmoved at best, or even "relieved" ...  

I don't think I have seen it quoted in publications either, but it will be published in the not too distant future, Deo volente .

This quote indeed nuances the standard view of the Empress' reaction, which is partly based on Vladimir Kokovtsov's account of his meeting with the Empress a month after Stolypin's death. If I'm not mistaken, an excerpt from Kokovtsov's account can be found in Robert Massie's "Nicholas & Alexandra".  According to Kokovtsov, she told him that life changes continuously and that he therefore should not blindly continue Stolypin's policies. She said that she believed that people simply did their duties, fulfilling their destinies, and that a person's death meant that his or her role had been played out, which clearly supports the view that the Empress saw the hand of God in many events, including Stolypin's death four days after the attack.

She said that she believed that people simply did their duties, fulfilling their destinies, and that a person's death meant that his or her role had been played out, which clearly supports the view that the Empress saw the hand of God in many events, including Stolypin's death four days after the attack.

While I also believe that a person fulfills his/her destiny and that our time here is over when we have played out our role, I think that her choice of words or her tone (which of course we can not hear, but other did and reported ) are what have left us with the portrait of a very "hard" woman.  Her sympathy was evidently left to her diary and her letters and not given in words or actions to those who would have appreciated it form her.

Her apparent dismissal of events including the deaths of ministers and others is what has been reported to us in the histories and biographies that we have access to.  Her own words, now available in the release of her personal correspondence and diaries seem to soften the edges a bit, but if she never let that supportive side show to those who knew her it is no wonder that she was so totally disliked.

Just a quick note to say that I have just about finished compiling the information about Stolypin's murderer and I hope to be able to post it in a day or so.  Summer had finally arrived on the Jersey Shore so things are really busy here.  Alizx thanks so much for you remarks.  It is important to express this view of the Empress as it is probably the generally held picture.  

Perhaps there is another way of viewing both Kokovtsov's memory of the Empress' remarks, especially in the light of her own words which describe her fervent hope that Stolypin with fully recover.  Even Asher states that many of the supposed views of Stolypin in those last months are either attributed to "false memory" or someone opinion.  Asher reveals a picture of a prime minister who, though he is depressed over his serious heart problems, is not a man who thought he was going to be forced out of his office.  

Asher depends on Stolypin's letters to his wife, to counter opinions and assumptions that Guchkov was spreading.  

I think that Helen's research really gives us a brand new perspective on Alix and Stolypin.  I will try to gather some of this research and will post it after the Stoylpin assassination info.  I embrace our diversity.  By hold differing views, I believe it stimulates us to look deeper into the facts.  

Thanks again Alixz for sharing an important and widely held point of veiw.  

Griff, thank you for your intersting posts on developments in fashion in the Empress' days and your very appropriate illustrations!
The resemblance between "lady shopping - 1813"  and "lady entering her motor - 1913" pictures is really striking, isn't it?

But nonetheless I ... will include a glimpse at the Empress and how she adapted the new modes whilst at the same time avoiding the new short skirts.

Yes, she did, didn't she? Perhaps she thought them too youthful or not stylish enough. Or perhaps she just felt uncomfortable in such skirts because she thought she had 'terrible feet'.


Next month, the expanded Hermitage Amsterdam Museum will reopen its doors, and I look forward to seeing some gowns from the 1800-1915 era exhibited. Among the exhibits of the "At the Russian Court" opening exhibition will be a Charles Worth gown worn by the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna in the 1880s, but I hope they'll also show one or more gowns worn by Alexandra Feodorovna in later years and and I'll try and see whether I can recognise any of the developments you described here. (If they won't have any of Alexandra's dresses, I'll have to "settle" for less fashionable 1903 ball costumes. )

I hope to visit the exhibition this summer in Amsterdam too (I live in The Netherlands) It will be wonderful to see all the objects in the new building. You can watch a short piece of film on this site (scroll down):
http://www.hermitage.nl/nl/

They do have a catalogue that will cost 35 euros and as far as I know will only be in Dutch. You can buy it for example here:
http://www.hoogstraten.nl/theshop/product_info.php?products_id=383&language=en

I will certainly go to the exhibition and buy the catalogue. I hope you all do also if you are able too !!

Interesting video, but I wish they had shown more of the exhibition and less of the rough contract work.

I probably will buy the catalogue.

I know that I will never get there - for me it is too far.

They do have a catalogue that will cost 35 euros and as far as I know will only be in Dutch.

There will be an Enlish language edition of this catalogue. Title: "At the Russian Court". Its details can be found at http://www.hermitage.nl/en/pers/2e_fase/persberichten/informatie_publicaties.htm , bottom half of the page.

I didn't know that. Lucky for those whose mother tongue isn't Dutch !!

Madame Geringer is a mysterious figure as there are very few references of her, mostly limited to "Mme. Geringer, member of the Empress' household"... Was Mme. Geringer living in Tsarskoe Selo or like Mme. Zizi in the Winter Palace? Where was she at the time of the revolution and did she escape from St. Petersburg in the early days with personal possessions such as letters, diaries, photos. If she did write the book from memory, then inaccuracies are certain...

In the memoirs of Irina Galitzine she quotes of her grandmother's (Elizabeth Narishkine) diary for 1/14 August 1917 Tsarskoe Selo. Elizabeth had been moved from the AP to the Catherine Palace.

"...Madame Geringer came to see me and brought me the Empress's letter..."

I am not sure if this was included in Narishkine's memoirs but it is interesting to note that 'Madame Geringer' was still at the AP up to the departure of the family, was a contact between the two wings and remained after in Tsarskoe. 'Geringer' is not on Kotsebu's March 1917 list of those in the AP. If there was no contemporary evidence, I would almost have believed that Geringer was a fictitious name used later as a cover for one who was to remain anonymous yet survived.

Joanna

Hi everyone.  I am so sorry for the delay but everyone has been flying here for the summer and there has been so much going on.  However everyday I have worked on completing the Stolypin information and only have a page and a half to go. 

Madame Geringer is a mysterious figure as there are very few references of her, mostly limited to "Mme. Geringer, member of the Empress' household"... Was Mme. Geringer living in Tsarskoe Selo or like Mme. Zizi in the Winter Palace? Where was she at the time of the revolution and did she escape from St. Petersburg in the early days with personal possessions such as letters, diaries, photos. If she did write the book from memory, then inaccuracies are certain...

In the memoirs of Irina Galitzine she quotes of her grandmother's (Elizabeth Narishkine) diary for 1/14 August 1917 Tsarskoe Selo. Elizabeth had been moved from the AP to the Catherine Palace.

"...Madame Geringer came to see me and brought me the Empress's letter..."

I am not sure if this was included in Narishkine's memoirs but it is interesting to note that 'Madame Geringer' was still at the AP up to the departure of the family, was a contact between the two wings and remained after in Tsarskoe. 'Geringer' is not on Kotsebu's March 1917 list of those in the AP. If there was no contemporary evidence, I would almost have believed that Geringer was a fictitious name used later as a cover for one who was to remain anonymous yet survived.

Joanna

Joanna thank you so much for sharing this information. 

I have employed William Fagelson to research the John Lane Archives at Texas U. and this is what he found out. 


Griff,
>
> I've done a bit of digging in the likeliest spots and,  unfortunately, have not turned up much.
>
> The one (minor) success I had was to find one item in the accounts  journal (Box 63, Folder 3) that mentioned "My Empress":
>
> "1918 April 10:
> Copyright Account to John Lane Company for half of amount paid for worlds book rights ($250) 'My Empress' = $125.00"
>
> Not much help, I know.  I also checked 17.1 (Correspondence,  Gaut-Gille), 33.4 (Correspondence, Mot-My), 62.8 (Other internal  correspondence), and 63.5 (Misc records of the firm).  None of these  produced anything on "My Empress."
>
> This work takes me up to 1:45 spent on the research, so I am  stopping for the moment.  The best suggestion I have if you want to  dig further is to look through the internal correspondence in the  hopes of turning something up, but that could be a time-consuming  and likely quixotic task (hence, my question about a specific  editor).  I am happy to take on the task, but I am guessing that  you'll want to stop here.
>
> Either way, let me know, and/or let me know if you have any  additional leads that might help narrow the search.
>
> Best,
> Bill 

I decided to go ahead and have Bill research the correspondence files and said: "What if we started looking in the  correspondence for January 1918 as the book was reviewed in Feb. 1918 in the Ladies Home Journal.  Bill replied:

Griff,
>
> Sorry to take a bit to reply, but I needed to wait until I had a  chance to look at the finding aids.  Now that I've looked at it, the  internal correspondence is not all that imposing, especially given  the narrow time span that you are interested in.  I see four obvious  folders (61.5 - 61., and I cannot imagine that those would take  more than 2-3 hours, if that much (it always depends on just how  much it turns out is in there).  I think that was all I had  suggested as possibilities, but let me know if there are other folders that you want me to be sure to check.
>
> Best,
> Bill

After Bill looked through the correspondence files he wrote:

Griff,

I've been through the folders, but I did not find anything of use.  At least, there was no mention of My Empress, Geringer, or Mouchanow.  Then again, the gap in the letters was not particularly helpful (they run up to September 1917 and then start up again in August 1918).

I'm sorry the search was not more productive.  I can dig further if you want, but I am not sure where to turn next.  I could look at more of the later internal correspondence, but I suspect that is even less likely to have some mention of the book. Or, you might want to take another look at the finding aid to see if there is anyplace else you want me to check.  Those are my best suggestions if you do not want to give up on the collection, but you may want to do just that.

Best,
Bill

So I have stopped for now.  I am planning to visit my niece and nephew in England in the Fall so I see if Janet might let me look through the John Lane Archives on microfish at the BL.  I am also hoping to share this information with the archivist for Bodley Head at Reading U. in the UK and see if she might have some suggestions. 

It is so frustrating that the very correspondence [January-April 1918] that would certainly contain information about "My Empress" is missing from the Archive.  Bill said that we could look in files after August 1918 but I have halted for the present, though I am going to continue the search. 

 

Griff, Thank you for sharing your results on Madame Mouchanov. Too bad that the John Lane Archives in Texas didn't include any papers revealing her real identity.  

I hope you will be able to carry out your plan and visit your relatives in England in the Fall! If you do come to Europe, may I warmly recommend an additional trip to Amsterdam for a day or two to see the "At the Russian Court" exhibition at the Hermitage Amsterdam? First reports are that it's magnificent. About 2000 exhibits, including Fabergé jewelry; dozens of gorgeous dresses, uniforms, and paintings; one of Alexandra's grand piano's; and a lot more.  

Griffh - You are like a whirlwind researching everything and anything that applies.

I hope you do find the "real identity" of Madame Mouchanow.  What a coup that would be!