Author Topic: why not marrying a russian?  (Read 27305 times)

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2010, 03:24:14 AM »
'We have had a poster give us a great list of those young ladies who were available at the time.  Maybe we should delve into whom the young ladies did marry and why.'

That would be most interesting.

Ann

Offline mcdnab

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2010, 02:15:14 PM »
He wasn't interested in Helene of Orleans - his mother was. The Empress Marie thought a match would tighten ties between Russia and the French Republic by Nicholas marrying the pretenders daughter. Nicholas notes in his diary how uninterested he was in the idea. He was committed to Alix for a long time and I think his parents eventually caved in, possibly because of Alexander III's failing health, or because it became apparent that he wouldn't change his mind.
I've never really quite understood Marie and Alexander's antipathy to the idea. Alexander's mother had been a Princess of Hesse, Marie's mother belonged to the Hesse Cassell family. They'd only met Alix on a few occassions. It may be rather that Marie like many of her family preffered to be the instigator of a match and to keep treating her grown up children as children. It may also have been the growing anti prussian element within the court largely led and encouraged by the Empress and that would I think have done for most of the brides on the putative list. Also the Montenegrin Princesses who'd married into the imperial family were not universally popular either.
The first cousin issue ruled out in your list I assume the Edinburgh girls and the Danish and Greek cousins.

Yes but I don't want to mention if he was allowed to marry, I just wanted to know, if there was any woman who he was interested in. For example I believe that he liked Helene of Orleans for example (and was of course not allowed to marry her). Was there another lady he wanted to marry?

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2010, 03:29:52 AM »
I wonder whether Nicholas's parents were concerned that Alexandra would prove a haemophilia carrier.

Ann

Offline Grand Duchess Valeria

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2010, 03:35:04 AM »
And I wonder why his parents didn't let him abdicate. I remeber he was saying this if he would be not allowed to marry Alix. A & M had two other sons, one of them was the favourite...
And when he shall die, // Take him and cut him out in little starres, // And he will make the Face of heaven so fine, // That all the world will be in Love with night, // And pay no worship to the Garish Sun.

Constantinople

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2010, 04:18:12 AM »
Probably they werent even thinking about hemophilia and I think that they were locked into Pauline laws.  I think that if Grand Duchess Olga had inherited the throne there wouldnt have been a revolution.  But Alexander and Marie were completely correct about Alix.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2010, 04:38:41 AM »
Bear in mind that Georgy already had TB before his father's death and Mikhail was still a boy.

Ann

Offline Grand Duchess Valeria

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2010, 04:43:31 AM »
Bear in mind that Georgy already had TB before his father's death and Mikhail was still a boy.

Ann

Good argument, thank you!
And when he shall die, // Take him and cut him out in little starres, // And he will make the Face of heaven so fine, // That all the world will be in Love with night, // And pay no worship to the Garish Sun.

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2010, 11:02:16 AM »
Michael Alexandrovich was 16 when his father died.

Too young to rule without a regency.

But I think that Nicholas's threat to abdicate if he could not marry Alix was just a threat.  He would have done his duty if he had been forced into a marriage that suited his parents and his country.

After all, Alexander III and Marie were not "soul mates" when Nixa died and yet they grew to love and cherish each other and had a very happy marriage.  And, yes, they were right about Alix being unsuitable, but I wonder if they were right for the right reasons or was it just that both were anti German.

I have a question that never occurred to me before.  If someone inherits the throne with a regency, is there a coronation?  Or does that come when the new monarch attains his majority?

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2010, 12:31:37 PM »
There will be a coronation, but if the monarch succeeds before adolescence, it will be delayed until he is adolescent. The Russian example I can think of is Peter II, who was 14 when he died just before his coronation. The last English monarch to succeed under age was Edward VI, who was nine. He was certainly crowned before he died at 15. Edward V, aged 12, was about to be crowned when he was deposed (his uncle, Richard III, was crowned instead). Henry VI, who succeeded at nine months, was crowned at ten.

So, if Mikhail had succeeded Alexander III in 1894, he would quite realistically have been crowned once official mourning was over. If Alexei had succeeded in 1917, then they might realistically have waited a couple of years for a coronation, but not necessarily until he was adult.

Ann

Offline Svetabel

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2011, 02:00:07 PM »


This is a list of some of the woman who were around the same age as Nicholas and woud have been of equal rank at the time excluding caltholic Princess's.  I think his father would have liked for his son to marry one of the Montenegro Princess's.



Princess Alexandra Therese Marie of Anhalt (Dessau 4 Apr 1868-Schwetzingen 26 Aug 1958)
Princess Sibylle Margaretha Christa Thyra Hedwig Catharina of Hesse-Kassel  (Schloß Panker 3 Jun 1877-Wiesbaden 11 Feb 1953)
Princess Bertha Luise of   of Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld (Burgsteinfurt 25 Oct 1874-Detmold 19 Feb 1919)
Princess Feodore Adelheid Helene Luise Karoline Gustave Pauline Alice Jenny of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg (Primkenau 3 Jul 1874-Oberasbach 21 Jun 1910)
Duchess Elisabeth Alexandrine Mathilde Auguste of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (Ludwigslust 10 Aug 1869- Schaumburg 3 Sep 1955)
Duchess Friederike Wilhelmine Elisabeth Alexandrine Auguste Marianne Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (Schloß Bellevue 7 Nov 1868-Partenkirchen 20 Dec 1944)
Duchess Victoria Marie Auguste Luise Antoinette Karoline Leopoldine of Mecklenburg-Strelitez (Neustrelitz 8 May 1878-Oberkassel 14 Oct 1948)
Princess Jelena (Elena) of Montenegro(Cetinje 8 Jan 1873-Montpellier 28 Nov 1952)
Princess Anna of Montenegro(Cetinje 18 Aug 1874-Montreux 22 Apr 1971)
Duchess Sophie Charlotte of Oldenburg (Oldenburg 2 Feb 1879-Westerstede 29 Mar 1964)
Princess Bathildis Marie Leopoldine Anna Auguste of Schaumburg-Lippe (Ratiboritz 21 May 1873-Arolsen 6 Apr 1962)
Princess Friederike Adelheid Marie Luise Hilda Eugenie of Schaumburg-Lippe (Ratiboritz 22 Sep 1875-Ballenstedt 27 Jan 1971
Princess Alexandra Karoline Marie Ida Henriette Juliane of Shaumburg-Lippe (Ratiboritz 9 Jun 1879-Linz am Rhein 5 Jan 1949)
Princess Luise Elisabeth Hermine Erika Pauline of Waldeck (Arolsen 6 Sep 1873-Elmshausen 23 Nov 1961)
Duchelss Elsa Mathilde Marie of Wurttemberg (Stuttgart 1 Mar 1876-Pfaffstädt 27 May 1936)
Duchess Olga Alexandrine Marie of Wurttemberg (Stuttgart 1 Mar 1876-Ludwigsburg 21 Oct 1932)
Princess Alix of Hesse-Darmstadt
Princess Margaret of Prussia







And Princess Marie of Greece (1876-1940)...actually according to a letter of Queen Olga of Greece to Empress Maria Fedorovna, 2 ladies had a secret hope Nicholas would marry Marie. In the day of Nicholas-Alix engagement there was an earthquake in Greece and Queen Olga sadly wrote to the Empress that for  Greece it was a symbolic lament about broken dreams [marriage of Nicholas and Marie].

Offline TimM

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2011, 04:11:32 PM »
Nicky married Alix because he loved her, end of story.  Marie may not have been too thrilled about it, but it was her son's choice, and she had to accept it.
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Offline Selencia

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2011, 10:42:50 PM »
Marie knew and saw that Alexandra would not be a good Empress, its sad that she didn't stick to her guns as well as her husband. Though it is up in the air whether marrying a different woman would have prevented the disaster that occurred; though hemophilia wouldn't have come into play.

Offline TimM

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2011, 11:36:51 PM »
Quote
though hemophilia wouldn't have come into play

That wasn't a given, it was a roll of the dice.  Not all of QV's descendents had it (Kaiser Wilhem II, for example).
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2011, 05:41:03 AM »
There would have been no danger of haemophilia unless Nicholas had married another descendant of Queen Victoria.

Ann

Offline TimM

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Re: why not marrying a russian?
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2011, 05:12:59 PM »
As I said, it was a genetic roll of the dice.
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